Kauffman Stadium's latest plan, an amphitheater/pavilion...

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Re: Kauffman Stadium's latest plan, an amphitheater/pavilion...

Post by lock+load » Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:06 pm

kcdcchef wrote:then a lot of other stadiums in pro sports that are adding all kinds of shit to their stadiums should not have gotten them either. that train in houston?? the hotel in torontos stadium? the built up warehouses in baltimore that were designed to look like old warehouses???


Why can't anything be about Kansas City and what is best for us?  You always bring up crap about other cities that is not relevant.  A train in Houston is not comparable to an amphitheater in the outfield here. 

Try making valid comparisons if you must.  A train is more comparable to fountains in the outfield.

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Re: Kauffman Stadium's latest plan, an amphitheater/pavilion...

Post by KCMax » Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:08 pm

No, Chef is right, other teams are doing it, and the Royals do need to do it too to keep up.

I think people are just a bit miffed that its being sold as a stadium renovation, when it is a stadium expansion. Perhaps its just semantics. I'm not really all that upset by it. Like I said, cool idea, just poor location.
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Re: Kauffman Stadium's latest plan, an amphitheater/pavilion...

Post by kcdcchef » Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:09 pm

lock&load wrote:Why can't anything be about Kansas City and what is best for us?  You always bring up crap about other cities that is not relevant.  A train in Houston is not comparable to an amphitheater in the outfield here. 

Try making valid comparisons if you must.  A train is more comparable to fountains in the outfield.


okay then how about those office buildings that are warehouses in baltimore?

okay then how about that hotel in toronto?

you guys are just looking for more ammo in your aresenal against glass.

and i compare it to other cities because of people like yourself that seem to think that this is the worst deal EVER when there are TWENTY stadiums in sports that were built FOR FREE. ( no ownership contribution )
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Re: Kauffman Stadium's latest plan, an amphitheater/pavilion...

Post by bahua » Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:56 pm

kcdcchef wrote:then a lot of other stadiums in pro sports that are adding all kinds of shit to their stadiums should not have gotten them either. that train in houston?? the hotel in torontos stadium? the built up warehouses in baltimore that were designed to look like old warehouses???


How does the fact that it may or may not have happened in other cities take away from the fact that it's complete fraud? It's not renovation. It is not the rehabilitation of existing structures. It's the construction of new structures, and further, no assurance whatsoever, is given that the buildings we already have will be renovated.

It's fraud. It's theft. It's criminal.

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Re: Kauffman Stadium's latest plan, an amphitheater/pavilion...

Post by lock+load » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:11 pm

KCMax wrote:No, Chef is right, other teams are doing it, and the Royals do need to do it too to keep up.


If we were trying to keep up with other cities, we'd be building a downtown ballpark.  That is what almost everyone else is doing.

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Re: Kauffman Stadium's latest plan, an amphitheater/pavilion...

Post by kcdcchef » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:16 pm

bahua wrote:How does the fact that it may or may not have happened in other cities take away from the fact that it's complete fraud? It's not renovation. It is not the rehabilitation of existing structures. It's the construction of new structures, and further, no assurance whatsoever, is given that the buildings we already have will be renovated.

It's fraud. It's theft. It's criminal.


semantics then, it is renovation AND expansion. they are taking an area of the stadium, centerfield scoreboard area, where, there is nothing but cement, and making it into something.

there are MILLIONS of examples in architecture in sports and the business community where something called renovation involved expansion too. good god.

lock&load wrote:If we were trying to keep up with other cities, we'd be building a downtown ballpark.  That is what almost everyone else is doing.


glad you said almost. there are still some that have renovated that are burb stadiums.
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Re: Kauffman Stadium's latest plan, an amphitheater/pavilion...

Post by kard » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:19 pm

kcdcchef wrote:
okay then how about those office buildings that are warehouses in baltimore?

okay then how about that hotel in toronto?



Do the Orieols get to keep the revenue from the office space, or do the Blue Jays get to keep the revenue from the hotels?  Who knows if they're even profitable, and it's splitting hairs, but it's kinda silly that the Royals are now in the business of promoting concerts, etc.
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Re: Kauffman Stadium's latest plan, an amphitheater/pavilion...

Post by kcdcchef » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:22 pm

Kard wrote:Do the Orieols get to keep the revenue from the office space, or do the Blue Jays get to keep the revenue from the hotels?  Who knows if they're even profitable, and it's splitting hairs, but it's kinda silly that the Royals are now in the business of promoting concerts, etc.


yes, the rogers communications group leases out the hotel to the rennaisance group.

baltimore owns the offices behind right field that were made to look like the old retro warehouses of camden yards, they use it for game day events, parties, catering, the top 2 floors are leased office space.
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Re: Kauffman Stadium's latest plan, an amphitheater/pavilion...

Post by Burton » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:25 pm

Chef, the warehouse in Baltimore out in right field, was not constructed for offices to "look like a warehouse". It's actually the old Baltimore and Ohio Railroad building, WHICH WAS BUILT IN 1899. Adaptive Re-use incorporated into a ballpark, not some cheesy add-on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B&O_warehouse

Same thing with the Western Metal building adaptive re-use in the leftfield corner of Petco in SD. Built in 1910.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040404/news_mz1x4metal.html
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Re: Kauffman Stadium's latest plan, an amphitheater/pavilion...

Post by bahua » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:30 pm

kcdcchef wrote:there are MILLIONS of examples in architecture in sports and the business community where something called renovation involved expansion too. good god.


Okay, tell me one hundred thousand.

kcdcchef wrote:semantics then, it is renovation AND expansion. they are taking an area of the stadium, centerfield scoreboard area, where, there is nothing but cement, and making it into something.


The difference between renovation and new construction is absolutely not semantic. We are being fed an outright lie. Furthermore, the kind of expansion they're talking about is not even for sports. Why can't you see that we're being rammed in the ass by this proposal?

I personally don't care if the owners put in more money themselves. The amount is what sickens me. They want a billion dollars from us, with no strings attached, based on a fraudulent ballot question, and all they have to do to make everybody jump is threaten that the baseball team that we don't/can't support might leave town, like it probably should.

The irrational priority taken by professional sports in this society boggles the mind. It's no wonder our schools are terrible. Look at our role models!

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Re: Kauffman Stadium's latest plan, an amphitheater/pavilion...

Post by lock+load » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:36 pm

kcdcchef wrote:glad you said almost. there are still some that have renovated that are burb stadiums.


I've learned that you take everything literally and will pick apart even the most minor or points.  Amazingly you felt the need to respond to my point, with nothing to add to it.  The vast majority of stadiums built in the last 15 years are in urban areas.  Period.  If you want to get into the comparison game, stick that into your pipe and smoke it.

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Re: Kauffman Stadium's latest plan, an amphitheater/pavilion...

Post by LenexatoKCMO » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:39 pm

lock&load wrote: Amazingly you felt the need to respond to my point, with nothing to add to it. 


You seem shocked.  #-o

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Re: Kauffman Stadium's latest plan, an amphitheater/pavilion...

Post by KCMax » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:45 pm

Image
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Re: Kauffman Stadium's latest plan, an amphitheater/pavilion...

Post by lock+load » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:54 pm

LenexatoKCMO wrote:You seem shocked.   #-o


Not at all.  I wouldn't expect anything less (or is it more?) from chef.

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Re: Kauffman Stadium's latest plan, an amphitheater/pavilion...

Post by GRID » Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:16 pm

I read somewhere that the Royals originally wanted a 16k seat amphitheater.  Barnes objected due to competition with Startlight so we have this 9500 seat theater for game days only.

A large full purpose amphitheater could be a nice revenue producer for the Royals, they could also share many of the same overhead cost such as event staff, bulk consession purchases etc.

But they are not building a major amphitheater and they are not using it for other uses.

I assume the Royals know what they are doing?  That thing sounds like a total joke.

A new 16,000 seat amphitheater would compete with hillbilly theater in Bonner, but you could limit it's competition with Startlight by not booking smaller shows.  Starlight does not do a lot of concerts anyway.

I would love to have a nice, modern large scale amphitheater in Downtown area, but I would also rather have one at the TSC vs a 9500 seat arena facing Kauffman that will be for before and after games only.

I'm just trying to understand what exactly they are doing here.

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Re: Kauffman Stadium's latest plan, an amphitheater/pavilion...

Post by bahua » Sat Mar 25, 2006 1:25 pm

It sounds to me like they're trying to get us excited about something that won't happen, so they can get our money.

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Re: Kauffman Stadium's latest plan, an amphitheater/pavilion...

Post by 49r » Sat Mar 25, 2006 2:17 pm

KCMax wrote:Image


HAH!

Brilliant!

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Re: Kauffman Stadium's latest plan, an amphitheater/pavilion...

Post by kard » Sat Mar 25, 2006 7:10 pm

GRID wrote:I read somewhere that the Royals originally wanted a 16k seat amphitheater.  Barnes objected due to competition with Startlight so we have this 9500 seat theater for game days only.

A large full purpose amphitheater could be a nice revenue producer for the Royals, they could also share many of the same overhead cost such as event staff, bulk consession purchases etc.

But they are not building a major amphitheater and they are not using it for other uses.

I assume the Royals know what they are doing?  That thing sounds like a total joke.

A new 16,000 seat amphitheater would compete with hillbilly theater in Bonner, but you could limit it's competition with Startlight by not booking smaller shows.  Starlight does not do a lot of concerts anyway.

I would love to have a nice, modern large scale amphitheater in Downtown area, but I would also rather have one at the TSC vs a 9500 seat arena facing Kauffman that will be for before and after games only.

I'm just trying to understand what exactly they are doing here.


Marketing 101:  Find what you're good at, focus on it, and do it very well.

The Royals play baseball.  They do not promote bands.  At least not in the past.  Are they switching from baseball to being a concert venue?  They've already got the $10 beer down.  Maybe it will work for them.

This is silly.  It's paying for a theater/pavilion where all proceeds go to the Royals.  Are we going to start building movie theaters for AMC on the Plaza if they threaten to leave town?  This doesn't fit--it's not for baseball.
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