Hey! Lets start another thread bitching about the NEW stadium idea!

[im2kull]

I've already said enough...

[kcdcchef]

I've already said enough...

what new stadium idea? the dtc just threw their support, 24-5, to the TRUMAN SPORTS COMPLEX plan. i guess they will have to pay that 2nd grader for the sketch of pnc park planted on the north side the 2 bucks they owe him.

[im2kull]

what new stadium idea? the dtc just threw their support, 24-5, to the TRUMAN SPORTS COMPLEX plan. i guess they will have to pay that 2nd grader for the sketch of pnc park planted on the north side the 2 bucks they owe him.

Yeah, but what about the WYCO idea for arrowhead!
I said any NEW STADIUM IDEA<

At least the DT Idea is dead, its either renovate or leave...

[im2kull]

Hey, I just got an idea!

Where the hell would everybody park at DT?

Enlighten all us suburbanites!!!!

[LenexatoKCMO]

Hey, I just got an idea!

Where the hell would everybody park at DT?

Enlighten all us suburbanites!!!!

Do some searching.  Its been done a dozen or more times on here before.  There are even some fairly fancy overhead maps detailing exactly where all of the many thousands of parking spaces are. 

[bahua]

Also, not everybody *would* park.

[im2kull]

Also, not everybody *would* park.

Yes, I was being sarcastic...

But realistically, most fans are familys, of which I doubt will ride the metro or the tube..er...maybe just the metro...all the way to DT from their nice suburban homes.  And on the other hand, most NIMBY's don't have a clue where the DT parking is(ex.1...take a look at kemper during a brigade game), so I doubt they would really wanna goto a game DT anyways.  Why dont we start polls asking why you would want to goto a DT game versus a Kauffman game so badly? 

[Burton]

Yes, I was being sarcastic...

But realistically, most fans are familys, of which I doubt will ride the metro or the tube..er...maybe just the metro...all the way to DT from their nice suburban homes. And on the other hand, most NIMBY's don't have a clue where the DT parking is(ex.1...take a look at kemper during a brigade game), so I doubt they would really wanna goto a game DT anyways. Why dont we start polls asking why you would want to goto a DT game versus a Kauffman game so badly?

Have you never been to a Cardinals game??? The Metrolink is PACKED with suburbanites from both MO and ILL. You can park for free at the suburban station, buy a roundtrip ticket for like 3 bucks, ride the train downtown to the game and not worry about parking, walk across the street to the stadium and watch the game.

[kcdcchef]

Have you never been to a Cardinals game??? The Metrolink is PACKED with suburbanites from both MO and ILL. You can park for free at the suburban station, buy a roundtrip ticket for like 3 bucks, ride the train downtown to the game and not worry about parking, walk across the street to the stadium and watch the game.

this is true for every city except kansas city. what is your point? kansas city has a severe addiction to their cars. we are in the minority. sure, i would come to town, if kauffman were dt, hang out and the nutty girl, to get a sandwich, then take the 56 back downtown, grid would do something similar, a lot of regular posters on here would also do the same..........or walk.

but, you guys are in the minority. be honest, a lot of you regular posters who are urban cowboys, newsflash, you guys take the bus now, the royals express, to kauffman. and with a dt stadium, you would just walk. but, again, minority.

building the k downtown will not make kc ANY less reliant on their cars. kc no matter what, until it builds a reliable, excellent mass transit system, and even then, it will take years to get kansas citians using it regurlarly, will not ditch their cars.

[Burton]

I take it you've never been to a Braves game either. Atlanta is by far more auto dependant than KC is, yet the MARTA always is full of suburbanites coming into downtown ATL to watch the Braves games. I think if we had a good system in place, the people would use it.

[im2kull]

I take it you've never been to a Braves game either. Atlanta is by far more auto dependant than KC is, yet the MARTA always is full of suburbanites coming into downtown ATL to watch the Braves games. I think if we had a good system in place, the people would use it.

Yeah, But you obviously missed my point...
1. KC has no tube, no link, no metro, no subway, no light rail, no el train, no maglev, not even the damn'd polar express
2. Our own bus system is fairly incapable of handling that much extra people on a night when an event is going on at every major venue DT, easily could be 50,000+ people
3.  Even if it was able to...and we brought back the famed trolley cars for more capacity, nobody would support it, because for 90% of our metro, no, make it 98.9% (going off population records...aka...DT to the rest of the metro)...1a. DT has a BAD image to the rest of the metro 1b. It means more +++++ TAX's...which everyone commenting on here shows KC is clearly against, 3a.  Why bother going to a daytime game during rush hour when the royals are losing 100 games every 3/4 years...

Me, personally, untill the royals are perinneal winners, I have better things to do on Friday nights than sit around and gawk at our DT and maybe, just maybe catch a glimpse of some blond beauty in all those condo's that I hear are springing up

Get a grip on yourselves people, dreams are great, but how many of us have really seen our dreams come true?
The Sprint Center is a blessing in itself, and just seeing progress DT makes me content to leave the Royals put in their nationally acclaimed wonder of a stadium. 

[kcdcchef]

I take it you've never been to a Braves game either. Atlanta is by far more auto dependant than KC is, yet the MARTA always is full of suburbanites coming into downtown ATL to watch the Braves games. I think if we had a good system in place, the people would use it.

been to games at fulton county and turner field. i agree, atlanta has a lot of lots outside turner and georgia dome, they much resemble the tsc, except for the fact they are not together, however, i would not agree that atlanta has kc's car addiction.

BVC, you are down there in the peach state, what says you on this one? i know the local joke for what marta stands for, however, i have always noticed marta is packed when i used it, when i was there for the now defunct peach bowl.

[Burton]

been to games at fulton county and turner field. i agree, atlanta has a lot of lots outside turner and georgia dome, they much resemble the tsc, except for the fact they are not together, however, i would not agree that atlanta has kc's car addiction.

I lived there for 10 years. Atlanta is the definition of sprawl and auto dependence. Spaghetti Junction makes the Grandview Triangle infantile. They've been talking for years about adding the "Outer Perimeter", which would encircle the city 40 miles outside of DT.

14 lane wide DT connector


When KC has something like this right in the middle of the core, get back to me about a KC vs. ATL car addiction debate.

edit: Please look at this 2000 study, and note where Kansas City is in relation to Atlanta.
http://www.transact.org/report.asp?id=42

[kcdcchef]

new york and dc have much more massive arteries into the city that are even more clogged. does that make them addicted to cars?

i am not going to go toe to toe with someone who lived in atlanta, as, i have only visited. however, they use their mass transit 10 times more then kc does, yes or no?

[KCDevin]

Try to eliminate the car addiction, push for light rail from suburbs and publicize it. Promote it with commercials, do stuff to make suburbanites want to use Light Rail...

Heck, by 2015, gas prices will be growing even higher at a faster rate. Unless suburbanites buy hybrids, they will be screwed, because most electric cars go only 50 miles, and you won't have plugins in a parking garage.
We won't have enough corn oil to go around so that is out of the question. Water will be too problematic with mold and leakage...

Option: Light Rail - Build an electric light rail system, capable of running on it's own power generators in case of blackouts or a terror attack for evacuations.

[BVC]

been to games at fulton county and turner field. i agree, atlanta has a lot of lots outside turner and georgia dome, they much resemble the tsc, except for the fact they are not together, however, i would not agree that atlanta has kc's car addiction.

BVC, you are down there in the peach state, what says you on this one? i know the local joke for what marta stands for, however, i have always noticed marta is packed when i used it, when i was there for the now defunct peach bowl.

Chef, my experience with MARTA rail is highly favorable although it does not let out directly next to Turner Field which is just south of downtown.  Local joke aside re: MARTA rail, it is very clean and efficient with a diverse gathering and definitely full at most peak times.  I do have to differ with you on Atlanta's car infatuation.  Although MARTA is very good on the rail and bus side, this city is packed to the hilt with autos and most prefer their vehicles currently.  With all hope, this will be changing.  There is a big private sector movement gaining momentum to initiate a streetcar system (www.atlantastreetcar.com) to link Buckhead, Midtown and Downtown.  Nearly 3/4 million people work in the Peachtree Corridor with Peachtree being woefully inadequate for the traffic it serves.  Six lanes with no left turn lanes, busses always in the right lane, and driveways all along the corridor...  The streetcar system will most likely work and do so effectively but putting in the system will be a tough sell because of the congestion on the road anyway.  I would love for this b/c I live within a short walk of the Buckhead MARTA rail line and right where the streetcar would run.

Funny thing I've noticed, KC and Atlanta have similar layouts yet only in reverse.  Downtown-Midtown-Buckhead-Sandy Springs/Dunwoody run from south to north and translate similarly to River-Crown-Plaza-Overland Park that runs from north to south.  Also, the freeway layout is similar.  The Perimeter (I-285) encircles the city to give us the InTown people (me) and the OTP (outside the perimeter) people.  I-85 and I-75 split similar to 35/29 and Georgia 400 spurs off 75 the way US69 spurs off of 35.  Both landlocked cities that are heavily dependent on cars but KC could use the MARTA example of how to set up a very efficient and density/attraction based rail line.

Atlanta is very car dependent but comparing KC to Atlanta on car dependency isn't all that relative until KC gets a rail line so that we can measure by percentage the usage of the two cities.  My opinion is KC is more car infatuated as of right now b/c of the resistence to rail.

[Burton]

BVN, The Gwinnett Countians, and all those in the north burbs are pretty resistant to MARTA, are they not? Atlanta was lucky because they didn't have to deal with the two-state layout of its metro in getting a rail-transit system set up.

[BVC]

BVN, The Gwinnett Countians, and all those in the north burbs are pretty resistant to MARTA, are they not? Atlanta was lucky because they didn't have to deal with the two-state layout of its metro in getting a rail-transit system set up.

A lady I know that lives in Duluth says they keep voting it down every time the ballot comes out...pretty sad.  They practically live in South Carolina being that far away. 

Also, the two state thing only complicates things but should not be able to kill the rail system in KC.  Jackson County and KCMO need to pioneer a line linking Waldo to KCI that cuts through the core.  When people see that success no matter what side of the state line they're on, they'll "want what they have." 

KC voting down the April 4 ballot could only help move towards a rail line if this scenario plays out.  Royals agree to move DT and that stadium ballot passes.  Chiefs move to Kansas.  That would free up a hefty burden on the KCMO and JaxCo side for a rail line which is much more important than keeping a team on one side or the other of an imaginary line.

[Burton]

A lady I know that lives in Duluth says they keep voting it down every time the ballot comes out...pretty sad.  They practically live in South Carolina being that far away.

Also, the two state thing only complicates things but should not be able to kill the rail system in KC. Jackson County and KCMO need to pioneer a line linking Waldo to KCI that cuts through the core.  When people see that success no matter what side of the state line they're on, they'll "want what they have."

KC voting down the April 4 ballot could only help move towards a rail line if this scenario plays out. Royals agree to move DT and that stadium ballot passes. Chiefs move to Kansas. That would free up a hefty burden on the KCMO and JaxCo side for a rail line which is much more important than keeping a team on one side or the other of an imaginary line.

Yep, we lived out by Stone Mtn., and they kept refusing to extend that line all the time.

The two state thing hurts, but there's also a problem of getting people from Blue Springs, Lee's Summit, and some of the other outer Jackson County communities to vote for a light rail system, so unless there's a vote only within KCMO boundaries (which even then is complicated, considering how far out it's boundaries go), it's going to be tough to get a light rail initiative passed no matter what.

Your last point is dead on, but there's a lot of people around the metro, and some on this site, that don't see the big picture like you do.

[KCDevin]

are you serious? The Chiefs moving to Kansas would be worse for Downtown than if the Royals never moved there. No, Johnson County doesn't deserve jack! What they really deserve is a kick in the backside and to have Sprint-Nextel, as well as every other company move away from JoCo to Downtown.

A Downtown Stadium is #1, not realistic atm. Number 2, the Downtown Stadium will never ever have the impact it had in any of the other cities, especially St. Louis. You won't have 40 floor residential towers being erected around the stadium in Downtown. People here just are not that crazy about baseball... However, if you moved the Chiefs to the Riverfront, that would really encourage people to go and move Downtown.

The Chiefs belong in Jackson County, and the Royals belong in Jackson County, however, if the Royals leave, then so be it, but the Chiefs must stay in Jackson County at all costs.

Personally, I don't want to see this get voted down, because the Chiefs have already stated this is THE last vote for renovating Arrowhead. If you want to call their bluff, your making a big mistake, because it isn't a bluff. They will move either to Kansas, or to another county, or simply out of town.

By early 1984, team owner Robert Irsay threatened to move the team unless Baltimore city officials helped pay for a new stadium and other concessions. Despite numerous public announcements that he would not move the Colts out of Baltimore, and the Maryland legislature threatening to give the city of Baltimore the right to seize the team by eminent domain, Irsay secretly negotiated with Indianapolis to move the team. The Indiana capital agreed to give the team a $12.5 million loan, a $4 million training complex, and the use of the Hoosier Dome 1. After signing the agreement, Mayflower Transit trucks rolled into the team's training complex in the wee hours of March 28. Workers then packed and shipped the team's offices and equipment to Indianapolis.

From Wikipedia.org

Do not think the Chiefs won't do the same. Just because they have been here for a very long time doesn't mean they won't leave for greener pastures. If voters are so stubborn about a minor 3/8 cent tax, then they shouldn't even be voting. (yes I said it)

The Colts' owner said they would, the public announcements said they wouldn't... He agreed with Indianapolis secretely and moved because the city was too stupid and stubborn to pay for a new stadium...

Same exact situation here huh?
The Chiefs have threatened they will move either to another county or to another city alltogether if we don't give them these renovations. Yet everyone is saying they aren't going to move... Don't let your stubborn nature as a tax payer get in the way of keeping Kansas City's one great team here in Kansas City, MO.