LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Discussion about new sports facilities in Kansas City
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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by kcdcchef » Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:01 am

[quote="aknowledgeableperson"]
The problem is with no cap, or a cap based on all revenues, as reported, leaves the Chiefs at a disadvantage.  Not saying they would move but it does provide more leverage to get what they want in the KC area.

[i]Jack Steadman, Chiefs vice chairman, told The Kansas City Star, adding that he is confident it will pass. “And if this doesn’t pass, then the Chiefs are going to be looking for a new stadium.â€
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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by KCDevin » Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:12 am

Only one reply to my post? I took a long time to think that up and write it.  :P

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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by Maitre D » Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:59 am

It was too long, Devin.  Need to shorten them up, or else people will gloss over them.
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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by Maitre D » Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:00 am

aknowledgeableperson wrote:The problem is with no cap, or a cap based on all revenues, as reported, leaves the Chiefs at a disadvantage.  Not saying they would move but it does provide more leverage to get what they want in the KC area.



No it won't.  If the system fails the team, that's their problem - not ours.

Besides, if the system fails small markets, that's even MORE the reason the team won't move.  What other market would take a team, pay 700M for a new stadium, and know that they're in a potentially unfair competitive market?  And again, don't dare say "LA, man!", b/c New Orleans is first in line.
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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by kcdcchef » Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:22 am

pittsburghparoyal wrote:No it won't.  If the system fails the team, that's their problem - not ours.

Besides, if the system fails small markets, that's even MORE the reason the team won't move.  What other market would take a team, pay 700M for a new stadium, and know that they're in a potentially unfair competitive market?  And again, don't dare say "LA, man!", b/c New Orleans is first in line.


no. it's not. the nfl will not let the saints leave new orleans. they put some of the league money into the superdome, hung a big banner on the side of it, stating the first game back is september 24th. it would be a p.r. nightmare for them to leave it after katrina.

not to mention, that close to half of the work that will be done to the superdome is going to be non essential, renovation type work. no way in hell the nfl will let a team leave new orleans after what happened.

5 years from now, maybe, but by then, arrowhead will be renovated, and benson will be getting his annual payments of 20m from the state of louisiana to subsidize his team, everyone will be happy.
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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by 49r » Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:04 am

The NFL is investing in the Superdome not to keep the Saints in New Orleans, but to keep New Orleans in the Super Bowl rotation.  Book it.

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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by kcdcchef » Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:49 am

49r wrote:The NFL is investing in the Superdome not to keep the Saints in New Orleans, but to keep New Orleans in the Super Bowl rotation.  Book it.


really? that is intresting, being is that after the last superbowl in new orleans, the talk was how the nfl had said no to 2 new attempts to put a super bowl in new orleans, saying the league would not award a super bowl to new orleans anymore, until they built a new stadium, which, was intresting, since new orleans has hosted more super bowls than ANY city.

of course, all of that was pre katrina
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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by justin8216 » Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:59 pm

The KC Star reports that this sales tax election is Waco Jacko County's last chance to keep the chiefs. Will it pass? If not all, it will be farewell to the Chiefs.

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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by im2kull » Sat Mar 04, 2006 2:55 am

aknowledgeableperson wrote:If free agency ends, which is possible, the Chiefs would definitely consider to move to a bigger market in order to make more money to compete with the big boys.


The chiefs will be in heaven not if, but when this happens.  Lamar is the only owner willing enough to throw tons of money at his teams.  he did it in the past and will do it again. 

And just for everyones info, KC might not be the biggest city, but we almost have 200 straight sell outs, and for all intensive purposes, in football, not baseball, we are considered one of the biggest markets...hince why commercial airtimes are outrageous for chiefs games compared to NYG games, because we sell out every time which guarentees a regional broadcast along with all the normal nationally televised games
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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by Maitre D » Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:38 pm

justin8216 wrote:The KC Star reports that this sales tax election is Waco Jacko County's last chance to keep the chiefs. Will it pass? If not all, it will be farewell to the Chiefs.


I hope they don't let the door hit their asses on the way out.
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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by Wallace T Hardcopy » Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:36 pm

49r wrote:The NFL is investing in the Superdome not to keep the Saints in New Orleans, but to keep New Orleans in the Super Bowl rotation.  Book it.


Vote yes for a weekend of bliss in 2017!

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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by Paintfumes » Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:41 pm

If you want to know :

http://www.mec.mo.gov/CampaignFinanceRe ... yYear=2006


Panel on the Jackson County, MO Stadium Proposal

Monday, March 27 at 7 PM

at the Plaza branch of the KC, MO Library
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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by kcdcchef » Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:57 am

Paintfumes wrote:If you want to know :

http://www.mec.mo.gov/CampaignFinanceRe ... yYear=2006
Panel on the Jackson County, MO Stadium Proposal

Monday, March 27 at 7 PM

at the Plaza branch of the KC, MO Library


noone cares. just vote yes.
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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by Highlander » Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:14 am

kcdcchef wrote:noone cares. just vote yes.


As someone who does care about having professional sports in KC, I have to agree with this sentiment. 

First of all, a downtown stadium for the Royals, as much as I want it, is simply not going to happen.  Without a renovated stadium, the Royals (but probably not the chiefs) are leaving KC.  Period.  If you cannot see that then you are not being honest with yourself.  There is no way Glass is going to stay in KC when he does not have to and there are better business opportunities elsewhere.  If you think there are no places for the Royals to move, then you are also not being honest with yourself.

For me, it comes down to do I want baseball in KC or not.  Yea, the Royals suck but it has not always been that way and it does not always have to be that way.  That should not be part of the equation.  Is it corporate welfare?  yea, of course it is but that is the choice we are given, pay for a stadium or lose the Royals.  If you want professional baseball in KC, then you pay for the stadium.  Whether or not Glass could contribute more is inmaterial, he's not going to and the Royals will leave.  By the way, I literally cannot stand the low brow sarcastic crap that Fenton and Walter T bring to the table....not on any issue.  If you got a point, make it, but do not waste my time that kind of bullshit. 

Like I say, I'd love to have a downtown stadium in KC but it simply is not going to happen.  Without a renovation, the Royals leave and baseball is NEVER coming back.  Sorry, but KC is not exactly a barn burner in population growth, it needs to hold onto this type of asset because it will never be back once it is gone.  Similarly, I don't know if you have noticed PPA and Devin (and Walter T and Fenton) but there are not any beaches or mountains in KC nor is there a Smithsonian and a host of world class museums.....professional sports are one of the few entertainment options available.  Professional sports do at least offer one type of entertainment that you can get in larger cities.  Again, all this smacks of blackmail by the owners and I suppose it is to some extent, but it's not the point.   To vote no on this issue simply because the owners are a couple of rich bastards is not going to help anything, we might as well be shooting our own collective foot. 
Last edited by Highlander on Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by Maitre D » Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:33 am

Highlander wrote:Similarly, I don't know if you have noticed PPA and Devin (and Walter T and Fenton) but there are not any beaches or mountains in KC nor is there a Smithsonian and a host of world class museums.....professional sports are one of the few entertainment options available. 


Precisely why they won't leave.  80K people don't go to NFL games in LA or Phoenix or MIami.  So if Hunt wants to pack his bags and make a go of it in a town where he's NOT the one-trick pony, then hit the bricks, Lamar.

Again, all this smacks of blackmail by the owners and I suppose it is to some extent, but it's not the point.  To vote no on this issue simply because the owners are a couple of rich bastards is not going to help anything, we might as well be shooting our own collective foot. 


Hunt & Glass need to pay their fair share.  When did I say they should receive nothing?  That's rigth, I never did.  But for Glass-Hole to offer 25M in exchange for 200M+, is a complete and total joke.  He needs to put in 50-60M, and taxpayers should put in 150.

For Hunt, same deal.  YOu want 200M?  You put in 100M then.  Fair is fair.  That's all I'm asking for.
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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by Highlander » Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:49 am

pittsburghparoyal wrote:Precisely why they won't leave.  80K people don't go to NFL games in LA or Phoenix or MIami.  So if Hunt wants to pack his bags and make a go of it in a town where he's NOT the one-trick pony, then hit the bricks, Lamar.

Hunt & Glass need to pay their fair share.  When did I say they should receive nothing?  That's rigth, I never did.  But for Glass-Hole to offer 25M in exchange for 200M+, is a complete and total joke.  He needs to put in 50-60M, and taxpayers should put in 150.

For Hunt, same deal.  YOu want 200M?  You put in 100M then.  Fair is fair.  That's all I'm asking for.


Right on 1, chiefs will not leave but Royals will.  Hunt knows he has too good of a thing going here.  We are so close to the demographic limit for supporting major league baseball that Glass will not have any trouble justifying an exit from the city.

On 2, the issue has reached a point of decision, we cannot go back to Glass and say pay more.  We may think we are sending a message to Glass by voting no  but his take on it will be that KC is never going to support the stadium issue.  The Royals will be gone.  This vote is for whether or not the Royals stay in town.  I'd like to see Glass pay more also but the time for that was before the issue came to the ballot box; now that it is at this point there is no going back.  A no vote means the Royals are gone and MLB will is never coming back.   

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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by Maitre D » Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:57 am

Highlander wrote:Right on 1, chiefs will not leave but Royals will.  Hunt knows he has too good of a thing going here.  We are so close to the demographic limit for supporting major league baseball that Glass will not have any trouble justifying an exit from the city.


And if we can't support it anyway, why have it?  Why be a perennial 100-loss franchise?  It makes no sense.  And this renovation isn't even going to help change any of that.  An extra 10M of revenue?  So our payroll is 50M instead of 40M?  Big deal.

On 2, the issue has reached a point of decision, we cannot go back to Glass and say pay more.  We may think we are sending a message to Glass by voting no  but his take on it will be that KC is never going to support the stadium issue.  The Royals will be gone.  This vote is for whether or not the Royals stay in town.  I'd like to see Glass pay more also but the time for that was before the issue came to the ballot box; now that it is at this point there is no going back.  A no vote means the Royals are gone and MLB will is never coming back.   


Where will the Royals go?  You just said that KC is at the "demographic edge" of supporting MLB.  So, who else is left in the USA, in better position than us?

Besides, at 2M people in the metro, an NBA/NHL team is a lock to come to the new Sprint Center if the Royals leave.  That's my take, at least.  And even tho baseball is my favorite sport, losing 100 games every year isn't my idea of fun. 
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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by KCDevin » Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:16 am

If the Royals go, we still have the ability to get NBA or NHL. The Royals won't move Downtown, and if they leave, we can get another major league franchise that will be Downtown. Right now I do not believe we can support the NFL, MLB, MLS, AFL and NBA/NHL. St. Louis even has just NFL, MLB and NHL, yes like I've said many times before, they have more than 600,000 people than we do.

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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by Highlander » Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:26 am

pittsburghparoyal wrote:Where will the Royals go?  You just said that KC is at the "demographic edge" of supporting MLB.  So, who else is left in the USA, in better position than us?

Besides, at 2M people in the metro, an NBA/NHL team is a lock to come to the new Sprint Center if the Royals leave.  That's my take, at least.  And even tho baseball is my favorite sport, losing 100 games every year isn't my idea of fun. 


Yea, I agree that baseball would be replaced.  Hopefully not by NHL; much prefer NBA as I think it would have more staying power in KC (plus I am not a hockey fan).  But, with the Royals gone, my fear is that the city would settle for whatever came first and that would probably be NHL which we would likely lose due to lack of support and then really screw up chances for NBA.  

As for where would the Royals go.  There are a lot of cities out there that do not have a team and while there demographics are no better than KC's, do not also have to support a football team.  Some of these....Las Vegas (fastest growing city in the US....eventually will have major league sports teams regardless of what people think), Memphis (no football to support), San Antonio (smaller than KC but no football to support), Portland (their metro is bigger than ours and no football), Jacksonville (tough with football but could happen), Charlotte (see Jacksonville), Orlando, Columbus and Indianapolis are all similar to KC in size of the metro of which only Indy would be unlikely due to competition from NBA/NFL.  In some of these towns, baseball is not going to do any better than KC but in almost all, there will be a boost in attendance for the  first few years....always happens and that alone may motivate Glass.  

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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by Maitre D » Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:33 am

Highlander wrote:As for where would the Royals go.  There are a lot of cities out there that do not have a team and while there demographics are no better than KC's, do not also have to support a football team.  Some of these....Las Vegas (fastest growing city in the US....eventually will have major league sports teams regardless of what people think),


I'll accept Vegas.

Memphis (no football to support), San Antonio (smaller than KC but no football to support), Portland (their metro is bigger than ours and no football),


All have NBA teams already.  hence, in no better spot than KC would be for 2 franchises.

Jacksonville (tough with football but could happen),


Smaller, much less regional income, and already has NFL.  Not a chance.

Charlotte (see Jacksonville),


Overextended, plus, college sports/Nascar are huge expenses there already.

Orlando, Columbus


Already have a pro team, hence, a 2nd would be tough.

and Indianapolis


Nope.  Already have 2 teams, not bigger than KC, Indiana basketball is 30 min away.

wns, baseball is not going to do any better than KC but in almost all, there will be a boost in attendance for the  first few years....always happens and that alone may motivate Glass.  

He's not totally stupid.  A temporray, 3-5 year spike in attendance isn't a reason to move a team.  That's washed out by the benefit of having a team in a city 40+ years.  Don't underestimate how many Royals fans go today, b/c they went as kids.  New cities won't have that tradidton.
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