LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Discussion about new sports facilities in Kansas City
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LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by KCMax » Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:10 am

Let the threats begin.

Teams stress significance of April vote

Voters should not count on getting another chance to overhaul Arrowhead Stadium, two Chiefs executives say.
If the April 4 election fails, the team would realistically need to seek a new stadium, they add.
And, one of them says, that could be either here or elsewhere.
In fact, senior executives for both the Chiefs and the Royals say the teams would reject calling another election this year even to fund bare-bones improvements at Arrowhead and Kauffman stadiums, an approach some opponents have advocated.
That means Jackson County would not be able to do the repairs needed under the current leases, which would go into default next year, allowing the teams to consider other options, including relocating.
“This is the last chance for voters to vote on the renovation of Arrowhead Stadium,â€
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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by kcdcchef » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:09 pm

cutting and pasting star arcticles like normal, good job max.

although, i LOVED this piece when i read it through THE KCSTAR.COM earlier today, because of the royals, not taking the "it is over for the tsc if we lose this vote", they are saying, nah, if we have to, we will take it to a vote again.

i love the successful team at the tsc saying "we are gone from tsc if this fails", and the losing team is saying, hey, we will work a tsc deal out no matter what, so, so reminiscent of the 1989-1990 lease deal.
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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by KCMax » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:12 pm

kcdcchef wrote:cutting and pasting star arcticles like normal, good job max.


Thanks!  :D

I like that at least the Chiefs are willing to look at elsewhere in KC first. I do think WyCo would face a major uphill battle coming up with the money to produce a new stadium, but who knows? Kansas Speedway and Village West was an uphill battle too. Move the Chiefs to WyCo so Kansans aren't "freeloading" anymore and move the Royals downtown. It makes the most sense for this community.
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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by mean » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:35 pm

What does "state of the art" mean? Gotta love nebulous, nonspecific contractual requirements.
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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by kard » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:36 pm

I don't understand how they could go to Wyco.  Who's going to build them a free one there?  If Jax doesn't want to pay for it, how could they afford it?
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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by kcdcchef » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:37 pm

KCMax wrote:Thanks!  :D

I like that at least the Chiefs are willing to look at elsewhere in KC first. I do think WyCo would face a major uphill battle coming up with the money to produce a new stadium, but who knows? Kansas Speedway and Village West was an uphill battle too. Move the Chiefs to WyCo so Kansans aren't "freeloading" anymore and move the Royals downtown. It makes the most sense for this community.


read that piece again max. the royals pretty much make it known, if this fails, they are going to try the tsc again.

maybe if it fails every year for the next 10, then they will consider downtown.
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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by LenexatoKCMO » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:41 pm

kcdcchef wrote:read that piece again max. the royals pretty much make it known, if this fails, they are going to try the tsc again.

maybe if it fails every year for the next 10, then they will consider downtown.


The Royals are going to sign on for any deal where someone gives them a ballpark with virtually no contribution on their part.  Glass' motives are pretty damn transparent. 

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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by KCMax » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:41 pm

read that piece again max. the royals pretty much make it known, if this fails, they are going to try the tsc again.


Yea, I know, I'm just wishful thinking.

This should put to rest any arguments that "the teams are leaving" though, shouldn't it? At least the Royals. Its very clear they don't intend to be relocated or contracted.

And I find it very hard to believe the Chiefs would seriously consider leaving KC, and that if they did, there wouldn't be another franchise (Vikings, Saints, Jags) eager as hell to come here. Sounds like the Chiefs will explore all opportunities here before considering anywhere else. Any threat of them leaving is surely not imminent.
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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by kard » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:42 pm

LenexatoKCMO wrote:Glass' motives are pretty damn transparent. 


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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by kcdcchef » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:48 pm

KCMax wrote:Yea, I know, I'm just wishful thinking.

This should put to rest any arguments that "the teams are leaving" though, shouldn't it? At least the Royals. Its very clear they don't intend to be relocated or contracted.

And I find it very hard the Chiefs would seriously consider leaving KC, and that if they did, there wouldn't be another franchise (Vikings, Saints, Jags) eager as hell to come here. Sounds like the Chiefs will explore all opportunities here before considering anywhere else. Any threat of them leaving is surely not imminent.


the chiefs are not considering jack shit. this is the same thing that happened in 1989. the chiefs, who, sucked for 18 years, KEPT THEIR MOUTHS SHUT and let ewing kauffman, and the royals, do ALL the talking.

and mr. k, kept saying simple statements, like, "we MUST get these teams locked up long term, my health is not that great, i am older, we do not know who will own this team after i die, although, we HAVE to make sure the teams are locked into these long term leases, because it is in the best intrest of kc"

and the chiefs kept their mouths shut, just like they did in 1967. the people of kc in the late 50's decked out municipal to make sure that it held 50k+ for nfl, but that was all they were wiling to do. again, in 67, when we got the expansion royals, and it was contingent upon getting a new stadium, the chiefs rode the royals coat tails. mr kauffman begged, pleaded, and beseeched the citzens of kansas city, and jackson county, to do the tsc. the fall back option, which, we have seen renderings, was the dome option. mr. kauffman was a smart man, ahead of his time, his comments on a shared dome was that they were a phase, that would not last, the teams would need a new stadium within 20 years ( smart man, eh ? ) and anyways, the chiefs, ( nfl was NOT that big in the 60's ) rode the royals and ewing kauffmans coattails, and in 1989, even thought the nfl was up and coming, the chiefs SUCKED, and the chiefs, were silent as the grave.

fast forward 17-18 years, the royals, at the begining of this, were still competitive ( 1989, 1991, 1994 ) however, the royals, are SILENT, because now, the chiefs are the winners, and the royals are letting the chiefs do the talking, the scaring, and being movers and shakers.

and i say, good for them. after 40 years, take a break.
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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by KCMax » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:53 pm

I'm not sure I follow chef. I get your point about the Chiefs doing all the talking, unlike in 1989, but you don't think the Chiefs have a backup plan should this fail? Why is that?
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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by TheNorthlander » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:41 pm

Kard wrote:I don't understand how they could go to Wyco.  Who's going to build them a free one there?  If Jax doesn't want to pay for it, how could they afford it?


The State of Kansas would have to pay for it.  Camden Yards and Ravens Stadium were built by the State of Maryland.
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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by kcdcchef » Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:27 pm

KCMax wrote:I'm not sure I follow chef. I get your point about the Chiefs doing all the talking, unlike in 1989, but you don't think the Chiefs have a backup plan should this fail? Why is that?


the chiefs have no backup plan . and they will reluctantly accept a tsc plan if this fails. they are just talking big, max like mr. k did.
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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by ComandanteCero » Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:16 pm

i just saw a report on this in the news (KMBC), they said that realistically if this plan does not go forward the Chiefs will try to build a new stadium at TSC (they didn't think WyCo would be able to support building and maintaining a new stadium, and JoCo has its hands tied up with the soccer complex for the Wizards right now).
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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by KCDevin » Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:11 pm

copied from the other thread:

If I lived in Jackson County and were over 18 (hey, I will be soon), i would definitely vote yes on both.

I do not believe the threats aren't real. They may move out of Jackson County, but they won't move to Clay county, nor any county in Missouri. Having the Chiefs in Kansas just wouldn't be the same, it'd encourage further movement to areas like JoCo, potentially hurting Downtown more than any companies moving to JoCo could ever do.

The reality is this:
No Downtown Stadium as long as David Glass is the owner of the Royals... They are against moving Downtown, as well as against using the rolling roof. The Downtown stadium isn't a reality, it's only a vision and probably won't happen, though we would love it to. It's a fantasy as far as Glass is concerned.

Most of you do not realize the importance of the rolling roof. The ballot on April 5th will not address renovations to the TSC, but also the rolling roof. Lamar Hunt said himself that without the TSC renovations, the rolling roof will not become a reality, even if that portion of the question passes.

It's your choice, a Super Bowl in Kansas City in about 10 years? Or a Downtown Stadium?

I take the Super Bowl...

The reason is this:
The Royals aren't a team worthy of keeping. As much as I like them, and I like MLB, they aren't a good team to have around when you can trade the Royals for an NHL or NBA team. The likely result is that we will not get either NBA nor NHL if we keep the Royals. If we kick the Royals out, or let them leave. We can keep the Chiefs, and they can pass as many things as they want to.

This is what we need to do in the future...
Get rid of the Royals, let them move to a larger baseball market.
Attract an NHL or NBA team to Kansas City, even if it's an expansion team.
Renovate Arrowhead and build the rolling roof, even if the team doesn't pay that much.

Then we will have the NHL/NBA team located Downtown in the heart of Downtown no less. Attracting up to 18,000 people per game. Plus The Brigade attracting just as many as it does now.

Once the Super Bowl rolls around, KC will have increased it's hotel space significantly as well as it's convention space.
We will have our "15 minutes of fame" for the Super Bowl... (and possibly be in the running for another one)

Plus we will have even more opportunites with the increased hotel and convention space, as well as a popular arena and a great renovated stadium with a roof that can be retracted.

In the end, we will have this:
1. A Super Bowl in 10 years, with possibility of another in the far future.
2. Increased Convention Space
3. More Hotels
4. A popular arena used by a major league franchise and a popular Arena Football franchise
5. More potential for businesses and residents (with increased events around the city and Downtown)

The alternative is this:
1. No Super Bowl
2. Convention Space may increase over a longer time
3. Slightly more hotels, increase with city demand
4. A popular arena used by only a popular Arena Footbal League
5. Possibility of Chiefs moving somewhere in Kansas, even JoCo, hurting Downtown. Or staying at an aging Arrowhead, or leaving alltogether (last resort).
6. Royals could stay at a decrepit stadium, move Downtown or leave.

These of course, aren't set in stone results, but just trying to illustrate my point.

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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by aknowledgeableperson » Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:21 pm

KCMax wrote:Thanks!  :D

I like that at least the Chiefs are willing to look at elsewhere in KC first. I do think WyCo would face a major uphill battle coming up with the money to produce a new stadium, but who knows? Kansas Speedway and Village West was an uphill battle too. Move the Chiefs to WyCo so Kansans aren't "freeloading" anymore and move the Royals downtown. It makes the most sense for this community.


If free agency ends, which is possible, the Chiefs would definitely consider to move to a bigger market in order to make more money to compete with the big boys.
I may be right.  I may be wrong.  But there is a lot of gray area in-between.

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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by kcdcchef » Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:14 pm

aknowledgeableperson wrote:If free agency ends, which is possible, the Chiefs would definitely consider to move to a bigger market in order to make more money to compete with the big boys.


what big markets? only one open is la, and they cannot support a team, because they do not give a shit. you see those 42,000 crowds at rams games?
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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by Maitre D » Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:40 pm

kcdcchef wrote:what big markets? only one open is la, and they cannot support a team, because they do not give a shit. you see those 42,000 crowds at rams games?


THANK YOU.  Good post.  Come on AKP, you know better.  With New Orleans so unsettled, they're FARRRRRR more likely to move than KC is.
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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by Maitre D » Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:41 pm

KCDevin wrote:
The reason is this:
The Royals aren't a team worthy of keeping. As much as I like them, and I like MLB, they aren't a good team to have around when you can trade the Royals for an NHL or NBA team. The likely result is that we will not get either NBA nor NHL if we keep the Royals. If we kick the Royals out, or let them leave. We can keep the Chiefs, and they can pass as many things as they want to.

This is what we need to do in the future...
Get rid of the Royals, let them move to a larger baseball market.
Attract an NHL or NBA team to Kansas City, even if it's an expansion team.
Renovate Arrowhead and build the rolling roof, even if the team doesn't pay that much.

Then we will have the NHL/NBA team located Downtown in the heart of Downtown no less. Attracting up to 18,000 people per game. Plus The Brigade attracting just as many as it does now.

Once the Super Bowl rolls around, KC will have increased it's hotel space significantly as well as it's convention space.
We will have our "15 minutes of fame" for the Super Bowl... (and possibly be in the running for another one)

Plus we will have even more opportunites with the increased hotel and convention space, as well as a popular arena and a great renovated stadium with a roof that can be retracted.

In the end, we will have this:
1. A Super Bowl in 10 years, with possibility of another in the far future.
2. Increased Convention Space
3. More Hotels
4. A popular arena used by a major league franchise and a popular Arena Football franchise
5. More potential for businesses and residents (with increased events around the city and Downtown)

The alternative is this:
1. No Super Bowl
2. Convention Space may increase over a longer time
3. Slightly more hotels, increase with city demand
4. A popular arena used by only a popular Arena Footbal League
5. Possibility of Chiefs moving somewhere in Kansas, even JoCo, hurting Downtown. Or staying at an aging Arrowhead, or leaving alltogether (last resort).
6. Royals could stay at a decrepit stadium, move Downtown or leave.

These of course, aren't set in stone results, but just trying to illustrate my point.



GAWD, did someone steal my log-in and post?  This is good stuff Devin.  Nice work.  Dead on, son.
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Re: LAST CHANCE TO SAVE ARROWHEAD!!!!

Post by aknowledgeableperson » Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:22 am

kcdcchef wrote:what big markets? only one open is la, and they cannot support a team, because they do not give a shit. you see those 42,000 crowds at rams games?

The problem is with no cap, or a cap based on all revenues, as reported, leaves the Chiefs at a disadvantage.  Not saying they would move but it does provide more leverage to get what they want in the KC area.

[i]Jack Steadman, Chiefs vice chairman, told The Kansas City Star, adding that he is confident it will pass. “And if this doesn’t pass, then the Chiefs are going to be looking for a new stadium.â€
I may be right.  I may be wrong.  But there is a lot of gray area in-between.

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