Question 1

[kard]

Good lock&load finally got warned! Kepp your signature lock&load, maybe you can get muted.

This is ironic coming from someone with a signature block that has as much height as Lock&Load's.

[bahua]

akp, you were like the only one against the arena, we all know that. It is just common sense that we will get NBA or NHL... Which, may I mention, could likely happen if this passes?

I don't think KC can afford three major sports teams blackmailing it. We're having trouble enough with two.

[kcdcchef]

I don't think KC can afford three major sports teams blackmailing it.

sure it can. the 3rd one already blackmailed it by proxy, the sprint center, probably will cost OVER 400m over the 25 years of the bonds, yet, noone ever mentions that.............

if an owner of the other 2 sports moves here, they get corporate welfare, without investing a dime. althought, you would probably kiss their hind parts for moving here, instead of tarring and feathering them like you do glass and hunt.

instead of corporate welfare, you would call them a visionary, or a hero.

[bahua]

sure it can. the 3rd one already blackmailed it by proxy, the sprint center, probably will cost OVER 400m over the 25 years of the bonds, yet, noone ever mentions that.............

if an owner of the other 2 sports moves here, they get corporate welfare, without investing a dime. althought, you would probably kiss their hind parts for moving here, instead of tarring and feathering them like you do glass and hunt.

instead of corporate welfare, you would call them a visionary, or a hero.

Like i said in the other thread, I oppose corporate welfare, and the idea of making visitors pay for civic improvements in our city. I'm not happy with the Arena.

[lock+load]

According to Micheal Mahoney on KMBC, the total cost of Question 1 alone over 25 years will be $1.2 billion.  That includes interest and the $425 million principal.

Link to back this up

Campaign boosters concede they will have to pay off the interest to finance that $425 million. That interest is another $780 million, the campaign says. So the the total cost to the county over 25 years is $1.2 billion.

[kard]

Is my math right?  I used this as a source:  http://www.smartkc.com/3_locating/3e_ta ... _sales.htm

If Question 1 passes, this will be the new tax rates:

Code: Select all

City                          Current Rate     New Rate: +.375
Blue Springs, Jackson Co.     6.475            6.85
Grandview, Jackson Co.        7.475            7.85
Independence, Jackson Co.     7.225            7.6
Kansas City, Jackson Co.      7.35             7.725
Lee’s Summit, Jackson Co.     7.35             7.725
Raytown, Jackson Co.          6.975            7.35

[kcdcchef]

Link to back this up

Campaign boosters concede they will have to pay off the interest to finance that $425 million. That interest is another $780 million, the campaign says. So the the total cost to the county over 25 years is $1.2 billion.

save it. this is all fuzzy math, and we all know it. noone knows for sure how much the intrest will be on those bonds over 25 years.

and the serious educated voters do not look at intrest rates on bonds, and inflation. anyone with a second grade education understands that what you approve today, will cost more over the quarter century to make it happen.

[lock+load]

save it. this is all fuzzy math, and we all know it. noone knows for sure how much the intrest will be on those bonds over 25 years.

and the serious educated voters do not look at intrest rates on bonds, and inflation. anyone with a second grade education understands that what you approve today, will cost more over the quarter century to make it happen.

The numbers came from the campaign supporters.  They are practicing fuzzy math?  What a suprise.

Educated voters understand that they will be paying much more for this project than the $425 current price tag.  Why you dismiss interest costs is flabbergasting to me.

When you go to purchase a home, are you only concerned with the price of the home, or are you more concerned with the amount of the mortgage payment each month?  For most, it is the latter, and that amount includes interest.

Those of us with a college education (from schools that teach subjects like economics, not how to boil an egg) understand this is a detail that at least warrants consideration.

[kcdcchef]

The numbers came from the campaign supporters.  They are practicing fuzzy math?  What a suprise.

Educated voters understand that they will be paying much more for this project than the $425 current price tag.  Why you dismiss interest costs is flabbergasting to me.

When you go to purchase a home, are you only concerned with the price of the home, or are you more concerned with the amount of the mortgage payment each month?  For most, it is the latter, and that amount includes interest.

Those of us with a college education (from schools that teach subjects like economics, not how to boil an egg) understand this is a detail that at least warrants consideration.

lay off the personal attacks please.

back to the math end, when you purchase a home, which, i have in my lifetime, do you say, ok, i am buying a $225,000 home, or, do you say, well, it really will be a $310,000 home over 25 years? noone does.

sure, campaign supporters are acknowledging reality, however, it is just acknowleging the truth, the same truth people ignore, when it comes to how much other stadiums cost, i mean, how many times do we hear on this site, well, stl stadium only cost 400m, when, those are loans, and bonds, that over the life of them, will make that stadium cost 600m??

why am i arguing with you? that final four announcement later today is going to really help my side. what do you have? craig davis saying let the teams leave?

[lock+load]

back to the math end, when you purchase a home, which, i have in my lifetime, do you say, ok, i am buying a $225,000 home, or, do you say, well, it really will be a $310,000 home over 25 years? noone does.

Right, but you determine that you can afford a $225k house instead of a $310k house because of interest.  It is a major factor in what you can afford.  If you are borrowing money, you base your purchase decision on what monthly cash outflow you can afford, and that includes interest.  Try again.

sure, campaign supporters are acknowledging reality, however, it is just acknowleging the truth, the same truth people ignore, when it comes to how much other stadiums cost, i mean, how many times do we hear on this site, well, stl stadium only cost 400m, when, those are loans, and bonds, that over the life of them, will make that stadium cost 600m??

The difference is, who is paying the interest on those loans?  Are taxpayers or private parties?  I am not arguing about the cost of the stadium.  I agree the renovations are only $575 million.  I disagree, however, that the cost to taxpayers is only $425 million.

[kard]

How did Barnes get her $18 number?

If we do the 1.2 billion (which could be the full cost of it over time):

$1,200,000,000 / 660,095* people in Jackson County
= $1817.92

$1817.92 / 25 years
= $72.72 per person per year

Is that way off?  I know--people from outside Jackson County will be paying, too.  So take off 30% (the SOS number) and you get around $50.


*US Census Bureau QuickFacts - http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/29/29095.html

[kcdcchef]

Right, but you determine that you can afford a $225k house instead of a $310k house because of interest.  It is a major factor in what you can afford.  If you are borrowing money, you base your purchase decision on what monthly cash outflow you can afford, and that includes interest.  Try again.

i do not have to try again. if you buy a house, you say it costs 225, you do not say, well, over 25 years, it REALLY will cost this. that is retarded.

[lock+load]

i do not have to try again. if you buy a house, you say it costs 225, you do not say, well, over 25 years, it REALLY will cost this. that is retarded.

You are stupid.  I say this not as an insult.  You really meet the definition of stupid.

From dictionary.com:  Slow to learn or understand

If you look at this mortgage calculator, you'll see one of the main pieces of information they provide to you is the total interest paid over the life of the loan.  In this case, it happens to be more than the loan principal amount.  Interest is a cost.

[kcdcchef]

You are stupid.  I say this not as an insult.  You really meet the definition of stupid.

From dictionary.com:  Slow to learn or understand

If you look at this mortgage calculator, you'll see one of the main pieces of information they provide to you is the total interest paid over the life of the loan.  In this case, it happens to be more than the loan principal amount.  Interest is a cost.

i have bought a home in my life, you have not. you were still living at home like 2 years ago.

and when i bought my home, i said, i am buying a $412,000 home. i did not say it really will be a $560,000 home when i finish paying it off.

[KCMax]

You can afford a home that much but you still choose not to live in KC because of money????

Man, the problems some people have. 

[lock+load]

i have bought a home in my life, you have not. you were still living at home like 2 years ago.

and when i bought my home, i said, i am buying a $412,000 home. i did not say it really will be a $560,000 home when i finish paying it off.

You continue to miss the point.  I never said it was anything but $575 million in renovations.  I said the total cost to taxpayers is $1.2 billion.  You say you bought a $412k home, because that is the value of the home.  That, however, is not the total cost to you.  That is only the value of the home.

You buy 25 shares of stock for $5 a share.  You say you paid $5 a share for the stock.  However, you also paid a commission to the broker.  That is a relevant cost.  The cost of the underlying property/improvements is not the only relevant piece of information.

Please visit the local University in Pittsburgh and enroll in a course in Finance.  You might learn something.

[kcdcchef]

You continue to miss the point.  I never said it was anything but $575 million in renovations.  I said the total cost to taxpayers is $1.2 billion.  You say you bought a $412k home, because that is the value of the home.  That, however, is not the total cost to you.  That is only the value of the home.

You buy 25 shares of stock for $5 a share.  You say you paid $5 a share for the stock.  However, you also paid a commission to the broker.  That is a relevant cost.  The cost of the underlying property/improvements is not the only relevant piece of information.

Please visit the local University in Pittsburgh and enroll in a course in Finance.  You might learn something.

either way, you say the home costs x, not, the home REALLY will cost x.

that is what is getting done with the stadium issue.

You can afford a home that much but you still choose not to live in KC because of money????

Man, the problems some people have. 

what is your point?

[lock+load]

either way, you say the home costs x, not, the home REALLY will cost x.

that is what is getting done with the stadium issue.

Someone needs to poke a hole in your head so things can get through.

[KCMax]

Who gives a rat's behind what people say? I'm more interested in what it really will cost.

[kcdcchef]

Someone needs to poke a hole in your head so things can get through.

likewise to you.

Who gives a rat's behind what people say? I'm more interested in what it really will cost.

so, you are saying, that, when you buy a car, or a home, you say, well, really, it will cost this much over 10 or 25 years? i have bought a home and 2 cars, i have NEVER said that. i just say, okay, this is the sticker price, this is what the dealer adjusted it to after bargaining, this is what it costs. then, years later when you sell it, then, you say a different amount.

that new $410m sprint center is looking good............