Downtown Council, Mayor Barnes supporting TSC renovations?

Discussion about new sports facilities in Kansas City
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Re: Downtown Council, Mayor Barnes supporting TSC renovations?

Post by kard »

kcdcchef wrote: there are all kinds of stories you can post, do not worry. i look forward to reading them a second time, like normal.
Why are you demeaning someone for posting links/text of articles in the Star?  I appreciate it being done.  I can come here and pick up some of the more harder-to-find stuff that's related to these topics that some sleuth has already found.  I don't always have a lot of time to wade through the paper in print or online.  This is a good thing.
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Re: Downtown Council, Mayor Barnes supporting TSC renovations?

Post by kcdcchef »

KCMax wrote: I feel like this is supposed to be some sort of insult, but I don't know why it is. Is there something wrong with posting KC Star articles? I've seen others post Star articles here, I thought it was okay to post them if they were relevant.
nothing wrong with it at all. i just find it funny that you criticize my posting, and half of yours is nothing more then posting star articles.
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Re: Downtown Council, Mayor Barnes supporting TSC renovations?

Post by lock+load »

kcdcchef wrote: nothing wrong with it at all. i just find it funny that you criticize my posting, and half of yours is nothing more then posting star articles.
At least the Star articles contain facts.  More than can be said for a lot of your posts.  Accurate facts, not made up facts.
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Re: Downtown Council, Mayor Barnes supporting TSC renovations?

Post by KCMax »

My criticism is that discussions with you involve you stating things as though they were facts, then refusing to listen to any facts that are contrary to your opinion. I find that to be "going nowhere." There is no point. It is just a back and forth with you always wanting to get the last word in so you can feel like you "won."

The Star articles are meant to generate discussion, and they usually generate pretty fruitful discussions - I know I learn a lot from the comments from others that follow them. Perhaps you think that your posts about your opinion of how things should be, and stories about what it was like to live in Kansas City fifteen years ago are more valuable than posting current KC Star articles. To each his own.
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Re: Downtown Council, Mayor Barnes supporting TSC renovations?

Post by kcdcchef »

lock&load wrote: At least the Star articles contain facts.  More than can be said for a lot of your posts.  Accurate facts, not made up facts.
and your posts, lockandload, are little more then taking cheap shots at someone like me who does not agree with your point of view. you constantly bitch about me "making up figures" when, it is little more, when i do, then taking a guess. as opposed to sitting there negative, pessemistic, and brewing over issues. yeah, real terrible thing i do.
KCMax wrote: My criticism is that discussions with you involve you stating things as though they were facts, then refusing to listen to any facts that are contrary to your opinion. I find that to be "going nowhere." There is no point.
when it is fact, it is fact. when it is a guess, it is a guess. i have done both. and freely admitted it.
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Re: Downtown Council, Mayor Barnes supporting TSC renovations?

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I think you miss my point. I have no problem with you giving facts or your opinion. Its the unwillingness to listen to others that leads me to believe that most discussions with you "go nowhere."
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Re: Downtown Council, Mayor Barnes supporting TSC renovations?

Post by kcdcchef »

KCMax wrote: I think you miss my point. I have no problem with you giving facts or your opinion. Its the unwillingness to listen to others that leads me to believe that most discussions with you "go nowhere."
which is great and all, but how many of you guys that disagree with me on the stadium issue or other sports issues, which, are all largely opinion anyways, EVER listen to an opinion you do not agree with, namely mine??

none.
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Re: Downtown Council, Mayor Barnes supporting TSC renovations?

Post by lock+load »

kcdcchef wrote: which is great and all, but how many of you guys that disagree with me on the stadium issue or other sports issues, which, are all largely opinion anyways, EVER listen to an opinion you do not agree with, namely mine??

none.
We listen, but no matter how many valid arguments we may have, you retort with some "fact" that is usually a completely made up guess on your part.  We could do that too to help bolster our opinions, but choose not to.  How many times have you thrown out figures for what a downtown ballpark may cost?  They range anywhere from 500 million to $1 billion.  The only legitimate effort put forth to estimate a cost is $357 million.  It may not be current, but is the best estimation I have seen.

Cheap shots?  Most cheap shots I take towards you are pretty warranted.  Wasn't it you that was ripping into someone over their career choice and aspirations?  That is a cheap shot, and you only did it because the person disagreed with you.
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Re: Downtown Council, Mayor Barnes supporting TSC renovations?

Post by kcdcchef »

lock&load wrote:
  Wasn't it you that was ripping into someone over their career choice and aspirations? 
see who took shot one in that dialogue, then get back to me.

lock&load wrote:   How many times have you thrown out figures for what a downtown ballpark may cost? They range anywhere from 500 million to $1 billion. The only legitimate effort put forth to estimate a cost is $357 million. It may not be current, but is the best estimation I have seen.


exactly. you as a non tsc supporter, a dt ballpark supporter, choose to support that 357 number, which, was A GUESS, by the dtc. hell, lockandload, even you have to understand that that that is a guess, they paid no architectual firm to research the number, and paid no consultants to work on it. IT IS A GUESS.

so, yeah, i guess at what a dt ballpark will cost, just like they do. and come to think of it, just like those people who are against the tsc guess what the tax amount will cost over 25 years. guess we are all in the same boat.
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Re: Downtown Council, Mayor Barnes supporting TSC renovations?

Post by lock+load »

kcdcchef wrote: see who took shot one in that dialogue, then get back to me.
Are you an adult or a child?  You do not have to respond to every shot one takes at you.
kcdcchef wrote: exactly. you as a non tsc supporter, a dt ballpark supporter, choose to support that 357 number, which, was A GUESS, by the dtc. hell, lockandload, even you have to understand that that that is a guess, they paid no architectual firm to research the number, and paid no consultants to work on it. IT IS A GUESS.

so, yeah, i guess at what a dt ballpark will cost, just like they do. and come to think of it, just like those people who are against the tsc guess what the tax amount will cost over 25 years. guess we are all in the same boat.
I never said it was an completely accurate figure, but neither are your wildly outlandish guesses.  I have no doubt it could be done for the DTC's figure + a reasonable rate of inflation.  It may not be top-of-the line everything, but you could throw up a ballpark for that.
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Re: Downtown Council, Mayor Barnes supporting TSC renovations?

Post by kcdcchef »

lock&load wrote:
I have no doubt it could be done for the DTC's figure + a reasonable rate of inflation.  It may not be top-of-the line everything, but you could throw up a ballpark for that.
and that is a guess on your part lockandload. speak for yourself and not the rest of us. i myself, refuse to believe they can build a stadium for a guessed at number. if you want to support the guesses of a group that voted for supporting this idea, BY A SMALLER MARGIN THEN THEY VOTED TO ABANDON THE IDEA AND SUPPORT TSC, then you go ahead. their guess is no more credible then mine.
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Re: Downtown Council, Mayor Barnes supporting TSC renovations?

Post by shaffe »

this may be semantics, but i don't believe the DTC voted to "abandon the idea of a downtown ballpark", merely to "back the renovation plans".
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Re: Downtown Council, Mayor Barnes supporting TSC renovations?

Post by bahua »

Backing the renovation plans that stipulate another 25 years of continued use sure sounds to me like they're abandoning the idea. At least for this generation.
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Re: Downtown Council, Mayor Barnes supporting TSC renovations?

Post by shaffe »

perhaps they honestly don't think the vote will pass, and don't want to look like the "enterprise" of this vote in fear of alienating the voters.  who knows?  surely not i.
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Re: Downtown Council, Mayor Barnes supporting TSC renovations?

Post by Burton »

lock&load wrote: Are you an adult or a child?  You do not have to respond to every shot one takes at you.
I was actually just asking a simple question about what his education/degree was, he took it the wrong way. Thanks for having my back though.
Hopefully this discussion can get back to the issue at hand soon.
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Re: Downtown Council, Mayor Barnes supporting TSC renovations?

Post by kcdcchef »

bahua wrote: Backing the renovation plans that stipulate another 25 years of continued use sure sounds to me like they're abandoning the idea. At least for this generation.
basically, bahua, when you vote to endorse the millions you wanted to build the stadium elsewhere, to be spent 6 miles away, yes, you are abandoning the idea.
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Re: Downtown Council, Mayor Barnes supporting TSC renovations?

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By voting no I am not endorsing any downtown ballpark plan.  I understand a downtown ballpark is not a realistic option at this time.  However, I do believe within the next ten years, it will be.  I would like to see the current leases fulfilled and the downtown ballpark revisited in 5-6 years.

Chef, you have thrown all sorts of numbers to support your position, so don't feed me that crap.  I said a ballpark could be built within that budget, but specifically said compromises may have to be made to fit that price range.  Are you telling me no ballpark could be built for that cost?

Look at the arenas in KC and Dallas.  Dallas spent a lot more than we are and that was a few years ago.  We're still able to build an arena within out price range though.
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Re: Downtown Council, Mayor Barnes supporting TSC renovations?

Post by kcdcchef »

lock&load wrote: By voting no I am not endorsing any downtown ballpark plan.  I understand a downtown ballpark is not a realistic option at this time.  However, I do believe within the next ten years, it will be.  I would like to see the current leases fulfilled and the downtown ballpark revisited in 5-6 years.

Chef, you have thrown all sorts of numbers to support your position, so don't feed me that crap.  I said a ballpark could be built within that budget, but specifically said compromises may have to be made to fit that price range.  Are you telling me no ballpark could be built for that cost?

Look at the arenas in KC and Dallas.  Dallas spent a lot more than we are and that was a few years ago.  We're still able to build an arena within out price range though.
we are not talking about a downtown arena. we are talking about a stadium, and we can start this shit all over again, st louis came in above budget, and is heading towards 400m, according to the st louis post dispatch. the dc ballpark got approved at 611m.

these are projects that have architects, engineers, city planners, all levels of goverment. the dtc is a group of local businessmen, that had none of those things to make their GUESS.

could a ballpark be built for 357m lockandload............................well, i will not make a guess, since, even though you support it when the dtc does, you blast me when i do, so, i will not, i will just say this........if one was built, it would be my opinion, THAT IT WOULD NOT BE AS GOOD AS WHAT WE ALREADY HAVE.

even you have to admit, all these new stadiums are starting to look alike.
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Re: Downtown Council, Mayor Barnes supporting TSC renovations?

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kcdcchef wrote: could a ballpark be built for 357m lockandload............................well, i will not make a guess, since, even though you support it when the dtc does, you blast me when i do, so, i will not, i will just say this........if one was built, it would be my opinion, THAT IT WOULD NOT BE AS GOOD AS WHAT WE ALREADY HAVE.

even you have to admit, all these new stadiums are starting to look alike.
There is no way you can dispute that a park could be built.  Damn it man, Windex your brain if you need to to get it through.  The one we have is falling apart and needs $250+ in renovations?  It sure isn't looking very good, then is it?  A ballpark could be built.  I didn't say StL's park, or DC's, or Pitt's, or one in China or one in your freaking back yard.
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Re: Downtown Council, Mayor Barnes supporting TSC renovations?

Post by kcdcchef »

lock&load wrote: There is no way you can dispute that a park could be built.  Damn it man, Windex your brain if you need to to get it through.  The one we have is falling apart and needs $250+ in renovations?   It sure isn't looking very good, then is it?  A ballpark could be built.  I didn't say StL's park, or DC's, or Pitt's, or one in China or one in your freaking back yard.
bottom line, there is no proof it can be done for 357m, since all the newer ones cost more.

windex this.............

and no, it cannot be built, and take your head out of your *&^, the 225m, which, no stadium can be built for, is being used to make it better, by adding things it does not have, new restaurants, new seats, nice looking outside, better concourses, quit painting a picture of chunks of concrete falling from the sky.
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