Downtown Council, Mayor Barnes supporting TSC renovations?

[im2kull]

There is no way you can dispute that a park could be built.  Damn it man, Windex your brain if you need to to get it through.  The one we have is falling apart and needs $250+ in renovations?   It sure isn't looking very good, then is it?  A ballpark could be built.  I didn't say StL's park, or DC's, or Pitt's, or one in China or one in your freaking back yard.

Lock and Load this ...

WE ARENT TALKING ABOUT DAMN ARENAS....THE SPRINT CENTER COST NEARLY 300 MILL, Imagine the land cost and everything else associated with a DT stadium...pull your head outta your fucking ass..period...(excuse my language, but some dicks just need straightned)

Front the NY Times -
"...the rock-bottom price of $300 million, which no city has managed to do since Pittsburgh's PNC Park in 2001... "

"the city's own figures estimate $574 million to renovate Yankee Stadium, including providing upgrades demanded by the team, versus at least $800 million for a new stadium - $1.2 billion counting the costs of new parking garages and replacement parkland."

[LenexatoKCMO]

Lock and Load this ...

WE ARENT TALKING ABOUT DAMN ARENAS....THE SPRINT CENTER COST NEARLY 300 MILL, Imagine the land cost and everything else associated with a DT stadium...pull your head outta your fucking ass..period...(excuse my language, but some dicks just need straightned)

Front the NY Times -
"...the rock-bottom price of $300 million, which no city has managed to do since Pittsburgh's PNC Park in 2001... "

"the city's own figures estimate $574 million to renovate Yankee Stadium, including providing upgrades demanded by the team, versus at least $800 million for a new stadium - $1.2 billion counting the costs of new parking garages and replacement parkland."

The Arizona Cardinals are managing to build a very nice FOOTBALL stadium for approximately $350 mil.  By all accounts from the TSC crowd, it is impossible to build a new baseball park for less than a half billion and a new football stadium for less than three quarters of a billion.  So how are our friends in Glendale managing to pull off a new football stadium for 350?  Could the effect of inflation possibly be being overplayed in order to scare people - no that would never happen. 

[im2kull]

The Arizona Cardinals are managing to build a very nice FOOTBALL stadium for approximately $350 mil.  By all accounts from the TSC crowd, it is impossible to build a new baseball park for less than a half billion and a new football stadium for less than three quarters of a billion.  So how are our friends in Glendale managing to pull off a new football stadium for 350?  Could the effect of inflation possibly be being overplayed in order to scare people - no that would never happen.   :roll:

There's a reason its in the desert....

Were talking about downtown here, not "Glendale"
I have seen that stadium, and you are aware that construction started 2 years ago?  Costs go up over time...yeah, new concept< I know its hard to grasp..

Go look at the cash you spend at the gas pump, then tell me about inflation...

[Burton]

There is no way you can dispute that a park could be built.  Damn it man, Windex your brain if you need to to get it through.  The one we have is falling apart and needs $250+ in renovations?   It sure isn't looking very good, then is it?  A ballpark could be built.  I didn't say StL's park, or DC's, or Pitt's, or one in China or one in your freaking back yard.

Our backyard ballpark, in Lee's Summit, which was featured on MetroSports last summer...


Only costed us about 1,000 bucks over the last 10 or so years.  

[kcdcchef]

The Arizona Cardinals are managing to build a very nice FOOTBALL stadium for approximately $350 mil.  By all accounts from the TSC crowd, it is impossible to build a new baseball park for less than a half billion and a new football stadium for less than three quarters of a billion.  So how are our friends in Glendale managing to pull off a new football stadium for 350?  Could the effect of inflation possibly be being overplayed in order to scare people - no that would never happen.   :roll:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

you just gave en example of the suburbs, building a suburban stadium, in the dessert, as an example of how we can do it. hahahahahahahahaha.

not to mention,

a) it is supposed to be 370m, which, is not 350m
b) final estimates are putting it closer to 400m
c) you guys fail to realize that costs only go up every year. in 2006, we have not even broken ground on a new stadium in kc. you think, that we approve something, which, that process would take the groundbreaking til 2008, you think the prices stay at 400m?? yeah, sure they will. and do not argue on 2008, because, it would require april 4th to fail, an organized effort to get it on the ballot, which, would take until 2007, and then, it takes a year after passage to break ground, ( look at sprint center )

Only costed us about 1,000 bucks over the last 10 or so years. 

here you go lockandload. it has been done.

[lock+load]

I give up chef.  You are right.  I am wrong.  You are also a dumbass, but that is beside the point.  I am not arguing with you about it anymore.  You can't vote and don't live here.

[bahua]

It's interesting that the most vocal proponents of the ballot questions, on this forum, aren't eligible to vote for it.

[kcdcchef]

It's interesting that the most vocal proponents of the ballot questions, on this forum, aren't eligible to vote for it.

or sit here like grown ups and do not call  names. you know, for all the villainafying that is done on here of me, i can show several times in this and other threads now where i am called a dumbass by lockandload, but, i will just let it go. 

i cannot speak for the youngsters here who push for it, ( although, devin may have left the building, again ) however, i would not make such a fuss on a ballot i "legally" cannot support, if it were not for the fact that i happen to know, personally, in excess of 14 people who do not do the online thing, that will, for a fact, vote yes on april the 4th. so, there you go.

i think, judging by the fact that these debates are always the same dozen or so people, and yet every poll, here, star, biz journal, tv stations, are so close, indicate, that, those who make the difference, are the silent lurkers. not the ones who talk the most.

I give up chef. You are right. I am wrong. You are also a dumbass, but that is beside the point. I am not arguing with you about it anymore. You can't vote and don't live here.

i love how when you have nothing, you resort to name calling, and pointing out where i live. now that is mature. almost like, i am going to take my ball and play elsewhere.

noone has to live here to comment on kansas city development, it is a site where whomeever can post about it. you do not have a problem with other posters, and even moderators, who do not live here, because they are on your side. get over it dude, and deal.

[lock+load]

I do not believe that is name calling as I am convinced it is a factual statement.  Do you think you are the only one who know many other people not on this board who can vote on the issue?  We all do, so that isn't saying much.

If this is going to swing to the side of those not saying much, your sides chances are looking very bleak.

[kcdcchef]

I do not believe that is name calling as I am convinced it is a factual statement.  Do you think you are the only one who know many other people not on this board who can vote on the issue?  We all do, so that isn't saying much.

If this is going to swing to the side of those not saying much, your sides chances are looking very bleak.

again, it is name calling. you cannot call someone a dumbass on here, and you should get warned for it, just like i do when i call someone a name. but, i am sure you will get away with it, as normal.

do i think i am the only one who knows people who are voting? no. but, look at the public meetings on this subject, there were just as many people that stood up and spoke FOR this, as that spoke AGAINST. do you see any of them commenting on here? dude, the overwhelming majority of posters here are younger people, you have to know that. so, does it make the side i support being weak, or just not big on computer useage? you tell me.

and again, thank you for calling me a dumbass. i will not return fire, because if i do, i will get a green dot.

[lock+load]

do i think i am the only one who knows people who are voting? no. but, look at the public meetings on this subject, there were just as many people that stood up and spoke FOR this, as that spoke AGAINST. do you see any of them commenting on here? dude, the overwhelming majority of posters here are younger people, you have to know that. so, does it make the side i support being weak, or just not big on computer useage? you tell me.

I was referring to the relative slience on the issue from the NO side in general, not on here.

[kcdcchef]

I was referring to the relative slience on the issue from the NO side in general, not on here.

they are not silent beyond here, but the yes is MUCH MUCH more vocal beyond here.

[LenexatoKCMO]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

you just gave en example of the suburbs, building a suburban stadium, in the dessert, as an example of how we can do it. hahahahahahahahaha.

not to mention,

a) it is supposed to be 370m, which, is not 350m
b) final estimates are putting it closer to 400m
c) you guys fail to realize that costs only go up every year. in 2006, we have not even broken ground on a new stadium in kc. you think, that we approve something, which, that process would take the groundbreaking til 2008, you think the prices stay at 400m?? yeah, sure they will. and do not argue on 2008, because, it would require april 4th to fail, an organized effort to get it on the ballot, which, would take until 2007, and then, it takes a year after passage to break ground, ( look at sprint center )


here you go lockandload. it has been done.

So land acquisition and inflation account for a half a billion dollar difference?  Sure. 

[kcdcchef]

So land acquisition and inflation account for a half a billion dollar difference?  Sure. 

number one, the land was given to them by the state. FREE, az wanted the development.
number two. construction started 3 years ago, so, by the time we started in kc, in 2008 IF WE WERE LUCKY 6 years will have passed since they broke ground.

so, since it is a 400m project, + 6 years, plus land acquisition, in a populated area versus the dessert where that thing went, then, yes, i could see it reaching the 700m the chiefs are saying new digs would cost

btw, 500m is half a mil, 300m is not. the chiefs, said that it could be BETWEEN 700m and a bil. they never said a bil.

[aknowledgeableperson]

The Arizona Cardinals are managing to build a very nice FOOTBALL stadium for approximately $350 mil.  By all accounts from the TSC crowd, it is impossible to build a new baseball park for less than a half billion and a new football stadium for less than three quarters of a billion.  So how are our friends in Glendale managing to pull off a new football stadium for 350?  Could the effect of inflation possibly be being overplayed in order to scare people - no that would never happen.   :roll:

1.  Construction has already started.
2.  Built outside of a city, not downtown where land costs are much, much higher.
3.  Is the $350M the total cost.  Was the land already purchased?  Any demolition/land clearance?  Enviromental cleanup?  Is the football team paying for items not in the $350M cost?
4.  Look at the cost increase of the Sprint Center - over 10% in a relatively short period of time.  could even have been more since we do not know what items were taken out or downgraded.

[kcdcchef]

3.  Is the $350M the total cost.  Was the land already purchased? 

read up akp. number one, it is 370m. number two, the land was free.

[aknowledgeableperson]

had not read your post before i posted mine.

[kcdcchef]

had not read your post before i posted mine.

oh no, i just mean the reading materials that are out there on the subject, that is all. if you listen to this board, pnc ONLY cost 206m, the az stadium will be under 350m, and the reason other newer stadiums getting built are going way over half a bil, is because they are in bigger cities like dc. never mind the fact that there are news stories you can read in the post dispatch talking about the new busch going over 400m.

but, i was just reminding you not to get your construction numbers from the dt ballpark supporters here, they tend to make their numbers look like they want to support their cause, while, ignoring the facts available out there.

my favorite, is how, a 450 m tax over 25 years, will, go to between 650m and 775m, they are arguing about which one it is, and then, in the same breath, talk about stl getting their park for 350m, because, their 25 year bonds obviusly do not go up, or pnc only cost 206m, even it was part of an 802m project, that actually hit 1b, and, then, again, in pittsburgh and stl, their 25 year bonds do not go up over 25 years. just in kc, i guess.

[aknowledgeableperson]

I pointed out the same thing on arena costs months ago.  The costs of arenas used by many sources was just the cost of debt issued by the government entity building it.  Did not include other costs that were paid by other sources, such as by the team or another government entity.

[kcdcchef]

I pointed out the same thing on arena costs months ago.  The costs of arenas used by many sources was just the cost of debt issued by the government entity building it.  Did not include other costs that were paid by other sources, such as by the team or another government entity.

i really could not care a less if arena costs go up. who cares. if you need a reason, they fucked around too long getting bids, signing contracts, things that could have went faster, and did not. period. stadium redo's will go A LOT FASTER because hunt and glass want this stuff done yesterday.

kansas city has noone to blame but itself for this project taking so long. i am happy we waited until 2003 to decide to do it, because, what we are getting by sitting out of the game for a decade, is the newest, most state of the art, and best arena in the region. but, kcmo should be 2 times as far along as they are now. a lot of us watched those webcams last summer, and watched, as nothing but dirt, just sat there, for 3 months at one point. and we watched earlier in the year, as the clearing process took forever to start, because of too much red tape, and too much bs. either way, the stadiums will not suffer that fate, they will GO FAST.