Downtown Council to endorse TSC renovations????

[TheNorthlander]

if it fails marginally, then, the shitty campaign devoid of renderings, or exact numbers, we blame it on that. but if it fails marginally, it will just reappear on the ballot in november or april

If it fails marginally and keeps coming back, the only person who benefits is Pat Gray who is getting his pockets stuffed full of cash every time something goes on the ballot.  But if it fails, let it reappear.  I can see the anti-slogan now, "Vote NO, again!"

[kcdcchef]

If it fails marginally and keeps coming back, the only person who benefits is Pat Gray who is getting his pockets stuffed full of cash every time something goes on the ballot.  But if it fails, let it reappear.  I can see the anti-slogan now, "Vote NO, again!"

which is better then the present slogan......."this time it may pass because all the freeloaders who got it free the last 35 years have no say in the matter"

[lock+load]

the proof i refer to is the owners of both clubs going on local radio, local tv, and local press, saying they have been contacted by so many people in the metro, saying they prefer arrowhead and kauffman, this, in the face of kietzman, saying he had like 3k emails. did not phase them. so, that is the proof i refer to.

I suggest you consult a dictionary and enlighten yourself as to what the word "proof" means.  Saying something can be proven indicates that it can be independently verified by a third party.  Email received by David Glass does not fall into this category, as I know of no one who has read through his inbox.

Your consistent ability to invent statistics and establish proof where none in fact exists is astounding.

[kcdcchef]

I suggest you consult a dictionary and enlighten yourself as to what the word "proof" means.  Saying something can be proven indicates that it can be independently verified by a third party.  Email received by David Glass does not fall into this category, as I know of no one who has read through his inbox.

Your consistent ability to invent statistics and establish proof where none in fact exists is astounding.

the man said he was overwhelmed with emails, letters, and calls, is proof. there is a difference, lockandload, between proof, and AUTHOROTATIVE ( sp?) proof. that is proof......the man said so. i do not have "proof" he is lying, and neither do you. so, that is all i need, and evidently, judging on all the signs popping up everywhere, that is all the proof anyone else needs too.

i am inventing nothing. just telling you what the man said. and he said he has kansas citians and jackson countians telling him to keep the royals in kauffman stadium. what more do you need? you support a dt stadium with numbers and figures AS DOCTORED AS ANY PART OF PAMELA ANDERSON. please.

the numbers and ideas presented by the dtc read like a c.s.lewis book.

[KCMax]

Why do the emails Glass got from pro-TSC supporters count as proof and the letters Kietzman received from downtown stadium supporters not count as proof?

[TheNorthlander]

the numbers and ideas presented by the dtc read like a c.s.lewis book.

Specifically they read like C.S. Lewis's great non-fiction work Mere Christianity, which is considered a classic of Christian apologetics. In 2000, Mere Christianity was named the best book of the twentieth century by Christianity Today magazine.

Did you even read the Downtown Council's information and where they got there numbers?  I did.  Hell of a lot better research then we have gotten from the TSC crowd.

[kcdcchef]

  Hell of a lot better research then we have gotten from the TSC crowd.

as of this moment in time, not really. at least the tsc group said in a prospectus where what money would go, a concourse beyond the crown scoreboard, with a hall of fame, moving the stadium club to right field and putting in suites up there, things like that. now, from all i am hearing, in the coming weeks, the tsc people will release updated renderings, and a better plan.

i read the dt stadium proposal. it was a mock up of pnc park in pittsburgh, forced into a neighborhood it would not fit in, with a crown scoreboard in center. yeah, they worked REAL hard on that. then, they took ancient construction numbers with NO regard whatsoever to the last 7 years, or the coming 5, and tried to make us all believe it

Specifically they read like C.S. Lewis's great non-fiction work Mere Christianity, which is considered a classic of Christian apologetics. In 2000, Mere Christianity was named the best book of the twentieth century by Christianity Today magazine.

yeah, i was referring to like, the chronicles of narnia. as a jew, i tend to avoid reading works like mere christianity. although, when i cannot find a tom clancy novel to read, i suppose picking up the new testament is the same.............fables, action, stuff like that. and that is exactly what the dtc plan was. probably why they are meeting in the basement liqour section of the osco/cvs right now taking a vote on whether or not to endorse the tsc plan.

[lock+load]

Yes, the grand TSC plan with those details shows that almost ALL of the Royals contributions go to Corporate suites, and almost NONE of it goes to the general renovations.  So one could say the Royals contribution is essentially ZERO.  Sounds about right.

[LenexatoKCMO]

the man said he was overwhelmed with emails, letters, and calls, is proof. there is a difference, lockandload, between proof, and AUTHOROTATIVE ( sp?) proof. that is proof......the man said so.

He has also continued to make comments to the effect that they never received a single fan message of support for downtown baseball.  Something we all know is hogwash given that some members of this forum, myself included, sent such messages prior to him making his statement.  Glass' email box is apparently a far from creditable source. 

[TheNorthlander]

they took ancient construction numbers

They took HOK's comparable stadium construction numbers and escalated them to 2009 constuction costs (using HOK estimates) and factored land acquistion at $40/sf.  I guess 2009 is "ancient"

BTW, HOK is the same architect working on the TSC renovations.  They are wrong on downtown but right on TSC?  Funny firm if that is the case.

[kcdcchef]

They took HOK's comparable stadium construction numbers and escalated them to 2009 constuction costs (using HOK estimates) and factored land acquistion at $40/sf.  I guess 2009 is "ancient"

BTW, HOK is the same architect working on the TSC renovations.  They are wrong on downtown but right on TSC?  Funny firm if that is the case.

well, for the tsc, HOK is getting paid by the county to give them figures. the dtc just took their numbers, and guestimated. do you see the difference?

[lock+load]

He has also continued to make comments to the effect that they never received a single fan message of support for downtown baseball.  Something we all know is hogwash given that some members of this forum, myself included, sent such messages prior to him making his statement.  Glass' email box is apparently a far from creditable source. 

Clearly.  I sent an email supporting downtown baseball as well.  They probably didn't bother to even read it, just like they've never even bothered to listen to the DTC plan. 

[voltopt]

seriously, just give me 5 billion dollars.
i'll fix it AND make you money.
refer to my earlier post...

[aknowledgeableperson]

They took HOK's comparable stadium construction numbers and escalated them to 2009 constuction costs (using HOK estimates) and factored land acquistion at $40/sf.  I guess 2009 is "ancient"

Can you post that as a fact?  So we don not have to go through their entire power point presentation.  I do not remember seeing that as their basis of cost.

[kcdcchef]

apparently the dtc has endorsed it, because on the save our stadiums website, they are listed as officially endorsing. along with other groups, ( indep, grandview, and kc chambers of commerce )

i have been corresponding with them the past several days, and have told them bluntly, if you want to sway ANY no voters, and in particular, the maybes, you simply MUST put real renderings, not the shit from bi state II, and show us where the money is going. ( ie, at kauffman, x$$ for this, x$$ for that )

they have said in the coming days all of that will happen.... i hope so. if they run this campaign without showing us where what money is going, i am going to be PISSED off, because it will kill it. and what they should hope for, is passage, but if failure, that it is real marginal. because, if this goes down in flames, they are fucked. and so is the dt stadium camp.

[lock+load]

"A League of our Own"  is apparently their slogan on Question 2....

What a fitting statement.  We are clearly the only area stupid enough to even consider a 40 year old idea for a stadium roof.  Congrats to us and welcome to 1970!  And we think this will keep us major league.  I think passing either one of these proves that we are not major league.  We are wannabes who will grab onto anything in desperation, helping us feel like we are one of the big boys.  But in the end, alas, we'd be stuck with our shrine to parking with a couple fields in the middle.  That is anything but major league.

[TheNorthlander]

Can you post that as a fact?  So we don not have to go through their entire power point presentation.  I do not remember seeing that as their basis of cost.

I was at their presentation and this was discussed with one of the reporters. Also, I beliieve Copaken gave this information out on TV and on the radio.  I didn't realize that its accuracy was in doubt. 

I guess this info didn't appear in the Star, and they are, of course, completely unbiased in their reporting on this issue.

[TheNorthlander]

apparently the dtc has endorsed it, because on the save our stadiums website, they are listed as officially endorsing.

The Exec Comm of the DTC has only referred it to its Board which has yet to vote and won't do so for at least a week, so the TSC group shows it can really be trusted with presenting facts.

[kcdcchef]

"A League of our Own"  is apparently their slogan on Question 2....

What a fitting statement.  We are clearly the only area stupid enough to even consider a 40 year old idea for a stadium roof.  Congrats to us and welcome to 1970!  And we think this will keep us major league.  I think passing either one of these proves that we are not major league.  We are wannabes who will grab onto anything in desperation, helping us feel like we are one of the big boys.  But in the end, alas, we'd be stuck with our shrine to parking with a couple fields in the middle.  That is anything but major league.

why are you so bitter about this lockandload? if this was a downtown stadium, you would be all about it. and the kietz style talk of being "stupid enough to consider this for 40 year old parks" i cannot wait to call in this week and blast him AGAIN, last time i did, i had his ass searching for words. the talk of 40 year old parks is such a line of shit, because there are not 2 other stadiums that were this well constructed ANYWHERE in the country, if not the world. kansas city did it right in 1967, and approved 2 great stadiums, that stood the test of time. what did not stand the test of time, was the sorry ass in the sticks location we chose.

and it is anything but major league. really, it is identical to gillette in foxsboro. built in nowheresville. or how about greenbay? the packers spent 300m of their own money to redo lambeau, and it is OLDER. or the new gem the cardinals are getting? please, last i checked, scottsdale, was not parked in downtown phoenix. so, the downtown card needs a rest, as does the no other cities do this ( chicago, although drastically, did it with soldier, green bay did it with lambeau, wrigley, and fenway, have had a collective 500m+ spent on them the past 15 years ) so, the noone does it to old stadiums, save that too. because, dodger is getting a redo considered, and it also is older.

these 40 year arguments have NO basis, because, there are very few stadiums built as nice as the k and arrowhead, and there are other old stadiums getting redone. we are NOT alone.

the bitterness, is sad. if it was a downtown stadium happening, you guys would be falling all over yourselves with joy, and calling people like me babies, and posting drawings with balloons and a 3 year old drawing, saying "wah. wah" if i was acting like this, if the shoe were on the other foot. there comes a point where you guys who are just this bitter need to accept we have great facilities, that, in a perfect world, are going to become even greater, and just move on from it.

and besides, save the bitterness until the evening of april 4th, this may be premature. this thing may still go down.

[Maitre D]

yeah, i was referring to like, the chronicles of narnia. as a jew, i tend to avoid reading works like mere christianity. although, when i cannot find a tom clancy novel to read, i suppose picking up the new testament is the same.............fables, action, stuff like that.

Trying......

....hard.....

....to.....

....resist....