Would you vote for $500 million in stadium upgrades?

[WoodDraw]

having pro teams in any city means giving them funds in some way....want to be in the game?  play the game.

We already give them yearly funds through the county and state taxes.  I'm sure everyone in this thread would support some type of public subsidy for the teams; the question is just how much and how it should be done.

And really, I don't think questioning the merits of a $500 million dollar tax for nonessential upgrades is at all unreasonable.  The people don't have some civic duty to support whatever the owners decide they want.  It's up to both the owners and citizens to put together and fair and reasonable plan that makes sense for everyone.  The current one, IMO, doesn't. 

[kcdcchef]

actually post counter, it is necessary

if we kick in the millions we should, the owners do the same, pump millions into their team. why should any owner in this market spend 400m if his own money to make something not profitable at present??

we do this, it helps.

how?? well, simple really, we spend millions to renovate, they spend millions, they can add more luxury suites, more concessions, restaurants will come to both parks, more and signifigantly better retail, and the owners can make more, and spend more. now, obviusly, that rationale works better on the k than arrowhead where they are making money, but it is simple, you give money to one, you have to give it to the other.

[skim82]

thank you. someone tell me why we are having this fucken talk when we all know that the money will get done anyway??

dont worry ks people, it is unconstitutional for us to not let you come to our beautiful stadiums you wont help fucken fund.

So, by your rationale, it's okay for us to help "PAY" for stadium upgrades in Missouri, but when someone suggests that we move the Chiefs to Kansas, everyone in Missouri gets pissed off and excommunicates the Chiefs.....

The money won't "get done" for these improvements.  It is a flaky plan with more incompetent Jackson County officials at the helm. 

Like every Kansan has said for months on similar threads.......  It's not that we don't want to help Jax county of the Chiefs/Royals..... It's that there should be no NEED to help the Chiefs/Royals.....  If the JCSSA had done their jobs, all the improvements would've already been made, and Idiots like KCDchef would'nt be blaming Kansans for all their STUPID elected/appointed leaders.  JESUS...... Don't people get the fact that JOCO could be your biggest ally in stadium improvements??????  Instead, Jax Countians and many Missourians keep insiting that JoCo is full of rich, snobby, ignorant, hummer-driving, anti-KCMO, suburbanities that don't care about 'KC'

Johnson Countians are definetly in favor of a revitalized urban core.  One example of this is when Bi-State I was passed in Johnson County....  Some people say that "Union Station/Science City" was a failure, but in my opinion, it was a success..  Anytime you can save a hiistoric landmark, it's worth doing. Do Kansas Citians not realize that the passing of BiState I was the first time in AMERICAN HISTORY that one state helped fund a project in ANOTHER state????  Also, has anyone been to first fridays @ the Crossroads district.... I guarantee you that 45% of KS plates are from JoCo... 

I will guarantee that to keep the Chiefs/Royals in KC, there wiill need to be regional cooperation from both KS and MO civic/business leaders....  KC has such a strength in the state line if we could just embrace it.....  I'm not trying to pour salt on the wound and act like KS has helped MO in all instances over the cities history.... I am aware that several businesses have left MO for KS, and so on.  What I am saying is that the PLAN to renovate (2) 30+ year old stadiums is ludacrious....  Especially when they're out in the middle of a interstate interchange.... 

We need the Royals Downtown, and the Chiefs @ Village West.... 

[LenexatoKCMO]

there are a lot of people here who are out of touch with the general concensus in that area.

So everybody on this forum that has voted no, the majority of whom are actual Jackson County voters/residents, are out of touch with the tone of the community, whereas the one guy who is diffinitevly in favor of it lives on the east coast and isn't even presumably eligible to vote in the matter but is somehow magically clued into the hearts and minds of Jackson County voters through some telepathic, cross-country mind-meld? 

Wow I do feel out of touch.  Thanks for setting me straight. 

[KC0KEK]

Do Kansas Citians not realize that the passing of BiState I was the first time in AMERICAN HISTORY that one state helped fund a project in ANOTHER state???? 

I didn't know that. I thought that MetroLink in STL was the first.

[KCMax]

Well said skim. Major karma for you.

[GRID]

When they polled for BSII, they asked about a Downtown ballpark.  JoCo didn't give it 5% of the vote.  I think JaCo residents were more supportive of leaving the TSC than JoCo even with suburban JaCo heavily in favor of remaining at the TSC.  I think many JaCo residents could go either way though.  So everybody that keeps saying that JoCo would pass a Downtown stadium plan is nuts.  There are what, 10 active JoCo members on this forum, most of which are very active and interested in the city, but there are hundreds of thousands of JoCo people who are so freaking clueless about KC it's not even funny.  And Olathe keeps getting bigger and they are extremely anti KCMO, they have been trying to pull this city apart for years and one of these days, they will even start to irritate OP.

And this crap about JaCo not living up the leases is bullshit.  I'm tired of hearing that.  It was a bad lease yes, but those stadiums have been maintained very well over the last 30 years.  They are in comparatively good shape and that is one of the problems we are having now.  The stadiums are in pretty good shape, they just are out of date by today's revenue generating and fan entertainment standards.

I know they need plumbing work etc, but this whole "breaking the lease" was unavoidable under this lease and the Chiefs knew it.  That lease basically says they need new stadiums and even if JaCo did “fulfillâ€

[shinatoo]

[quote="GRID"]
When they polled for BSII, they asked about a Downtown ballpark.  JoCo didn't give it 5% of the vote.  I think JaCo residents were more supportive of leaving the TSC than JoCo even with suburban JaCo heavily in favor of remaining at the TSC.  I think many JaCo residents could go either way though.  So everybody that keeps saying that JoCo would pass a Downtown stadium plan is nuts.  There are what, 10 active JoCo members on this forum, most of which are very active and interested in the city, but there are hundreds of thousands of JoCo people who are so freaking clueless about KC it's not even funny.  And Olathe keeps getting bigger and they are extremely anti KCMO, they have been trying to pull this city apart for years and one of these days, they will even start to irritate OP.

And this crap about JaCo not living up the leases is bullshit.  I'm tired of hearing that.  It was a bad lease yes, but those stadiums have been maintained very well over the last 30 years.  They are in comparatively good shape and that is one of the problems we are having now.  The stadiums are in pretty good shape, they just are out of date by today's revenue generating and fan entertainment standards.

I know they need plumbing work etc, but this whole "breaking the lease" was unavoidable under this lease and the Chiefs knew it.  That lease basically says they need new stadiums and even if JaCo did “fulfillâ€

[kcdcchef]

an east coaster, yes
with 20 relatives living in jackson county, all of whom will vote for this.

[TheNorthlander]

When they polled for BSII, they asked about a Downtown ballpark.  JoCo didn't give it 5% of the vote. 

This is not accurate.  The polling question was heavily slanted.  It went something like, "Do you support spending $600 million to build a downtown baseball stadium?"  (Because Jack Holland, financial advisor to Jax Co, insists that the cost would be $600M to $800M, even though every downtown leader and every financial study says it is more like $275M, including land acquistion cost of $45/square foot.)

The wrong question was being asked, it should have been, "Which do you favor, spending $200 million on Kaufmann or $200 million on a new downtown baseball stadium?"

Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer.

"The only way to know if a man is trustworthy, is to trust him."

[kcdcchef]

if you think it will cost 200m to build a downtown stadium when every other one has cost 400 or more, in the past 10 years, how in the hell are we gonna do it??

a reincarnated municipal stadium, complete with the goats grazing beyond right field?

[LenexatoKCMO]

It gets old.

Just as old as all the "JoCo people all have their heads in the sand and don't know/care about anything downtown" bullshit your spewing.  All of you state bigots like to pretend that everyone on the Missouri side is all in tune and supportive of the downtown revitalization and somehow cares more about the metro than people from Kansas.  Well guess what, last time I looked Missouri has just as many if not more people living with their heads in the sand without the least idea or care of what is going on downtown.  Out of all of my coworkers, the ones that are the most ignorant and/or hostile towards downtown are all from MO.  You guys act as if your state bigotry is ok by throwing in an occasional "sure there are a handful of people in JoCo who are cool but the rest of them suck when it comes to supporting downtown".  Take a look around - that could be said of the entire metro outside of the areas in the immediate core.  Outside of an ever expanding core of people who get it, this entire city has abandoned and ignored our downtown for decades.  If you think most people in Blue Springs or hell even SKC are any more in tune with downtown than people in Olathe, your full of it.  The vast majority of Missourians are just as guilty of turning their back on downtown as Kansans.  This whole town has a nice steady disbursement of people who have pride in the metro and want downtown to prosper mixed in with a huge huge chunk of people who are completely ignorant, could care less, or are downright hostile to downtown - and that goes for both sides of the state.  

[TheNorthlander]

if you think it will cost 200m to build a downtown stadium when every other one has cost 400 or more, in the past 10 years, how in the hell are we gonna do it??

The downtown baseball study done by the Downtown Council affirmed that the principal cost to the taxpayers would be roughly $190 million, this would be combined with a contribution from the Royals, naming rights, Missouri state tax credits, and other private investment and would being the total funds available to about $280 million to $300 million.  This number did not include interest on the bonds, which of course makes the cost go up. (Does your $400 million include interest or not?)  These funds were deemed adequate to build a new downtown ballpark, including land acquistion, environmental issues and grading.  In 2004, the average cost of land in Downtown Kansas City was slightly over $40/square foot. 

Top stadium finance minds were hired to do the study.  I have yet to see a comparative study specfic to Kansas City that contradicts their findings.

[Maitre D]

I would rather spend an hour in "Buddy's" with Tat......

[Maitre D]

if you think it will cost 200m to build a downtown stadium when every other one has cost 400 or more, in the past 10 years, how in the hell are we gonna do it??

Criminy, you never stop do you?  Pittsburgh built theirs for 216M.  Where do you get your strange theories on life?

a reincarnated municipal stadium, complete with the goats grazing beyond right field?

Nope - across from the downtown skyline.

[skim82]

Thank God Northlander, LenexatoKCMO, KCMax, get it.....



Geez, when are these fu#k Kansas people realize that just as many people in Lee's Summit, Blue Springs, and Liberty are no different than people in OP, Olathe, Leawood, and Shawnee....  Just suburbanites... 

I totally agree with LenexatoKCMO,  Missourians think just because they live in MO, that somehow they are entitled to "care" about downtown and Joco residents shit all over downtown..

[kcdcchef]

either way, the royals will never play downtown in this next quarter of a century, and that real fast traffic you people call nascar is as close as you kansans will ever come to pro sports. like the chiefs would ever go to kansas . please.

[myxomatosis]

WOW....these posts really are a microcosm of the problem.  It's clear everyone in this forum cares about downtown KCMO.  With the exception of some of the labling going on between fellow posters, there have been some really well thought out points of view - particularly from Lenexato and Northlander.  That said, shouldn't we focus on what we can collectively do to ensure our regional teams stay in the region instead of what we haven't done.  I'm all for learning from history/our mistakes, but we seem to be fixating on them.

From a regional perspective, I don't think the tsc is in a great spot.  The location certainly doesn't inspire JOCO voters.  As a longtime downtown KCMO resident and someone who attends 20 or so Royals games a year (and at least 1 Chiefs game), the location doesn't inspire me.  Furthermore, there has been no development around those parks for 30 years.  I think that area has had it's chance.  I don't like that all of our eggs are in one basket, out east.

I think we all look at them as our home town teams regardless of whether we live north of the river, OP, or Blue Springs (I'm willing to bet most people, when they are out of town, say they are from KC, and not the actual town they live in - Lenexa, Belton, Grandview, or Raytown).  I don't think it makes sense for Jackson County to take this stadium problem on alone.  I think we need help from Kansas, and to get it, we have to give them something.  My personal choice is the Chiefs.  We made a mistake 30 years ago by linking these 2 regional treasures together.  If we are going to plan long term, it's time to separate the twins.  I don't want our county to pay the proposed taxes alone.

Being the pessimist that I am, in the end, I think both teams will stay in the tsc, and Jackson County will pay to refurbish most of it.

[Maitre D]

either way, the royals will never play downtown in this next quarter of a century, and that real fast traffic you people call nascar is as close as you kansans will ever come to pro sports. like the chiefs would ever go to kansas . please.

bump! for Kddecchef, to explain his comment about $400M stadiums when PGH was done for nearly half that.

[eliphar17]

PPA, the fact is that Pittsburgh's stadium was an anomaly rather than the average. It would be next-to-impossible to build a usable major-league baseball stadium now for under $300M.