Truman Sports Complex or bust?

[GRID]

Well, Glass is now on board with Hunt with a more complete modernization of both stadiums.  Glass now wants 200 million for Kauffman.

Once again, I am going back and forth on this.  It really, seriously pisses me off that Jackson County will have to find a half billion dollars to fund a regional stadium complex.  All these other towns seem to be able to do metro wide taxes, while we just don't get it.  Jackson County needs so much road work and basic infrastructure improvements, and general redevelopment and once again, the county has to concentrate so much more than necessary to fund something that gets used by the entire metro.

While at the same time, JoCo is widening or has widened every single road out there to four or six lanes, many roads that don't need to be widened.  It would be nice if JaCo would raise a half billion to widen Lee's Summit road, Noland Road, re-build I-70 etc.  I know, this lies mostly in the city and state powers, but still...

So now we are not even going to ask the Northland for help on this now.

OK, whatever.

So I guess this is it.  The Downtown stadium idea is dead till 2030 or whenever the new leases are signed right?  I guess I'm ok with that.  In a perfect world, we would create two new modern stadiums, football at the TSC and baseball Downtown, but that just is not going to happen.

So is everybody on board with a Jackson County only tax in the spring to redo the TSC?

Or do we shoot it down, risk loosing the teams and try again?

I'm curios.

[macnw]

I would seriously doubt that downtown supporters will roll over. There is too much energy downtown. Getting a stadium(s) downtown would be the icing on the cake. How do we get Glass and Hunt onboard? Let's try to push the Star into running a metro-wide piece on downtown development. How about an informal poll about where citizens would want stadiums? We need awareness first, then we can start taking some serious action. I believe the ownership recognizes downtown would be the optimal place, but other pieces need to fall into place. Will that happen?

[KCMax]

I'm with you GRID, I go back and forth because I love the K, but I also love downtown stadiums.

What about some support from Jeff City? Good lord, is there anything in St. Louis that wasn't built by Jeff City? When is it our turn?

[WoodDraw]

I'm not sure how they can justify almost a half a billion for this broject when both owners (especially Glass) aren't putting in enough.  If renovating the TSC does become the only option then I say tell the owners that the city will match whatever they contribute, up to $200 million.  That seems fair to me. 

But I don't like the TSC.  For the Chiefs it works but for the Royals it does nothing for me.  So the stadium has pretty fountains and a nice field.  Great.  It's also in a sea of parking lots with nothing around it.

The Royals need to go downtown and the city shouldn't be held hostage by an owner who is contributing nothing to the project.  There is plenty of support with TPTB to get a stadium done downtown if Glass would just say yeah, I'm interested.  Why accept what almost everyone here would say in an inferior project?

[TheNorthlander]

"No matter how far you've gone down the wrong road, turn back." - Turkish proverb

Over the last month or so, polling has been being done to determine whether or not the massive upgrades would be supported by the voters.  The polls came back showing it was possible, but only if the ballot measure was limited to Jackson County.  Except for Glass and Eastern Jack, the rest of the metro realizes that the Royals need to be downtown, and the polling data showed this as well.

Glass doesn't want to move the Royals downtown for the same reason that he built WalMarts in the suburbs.  Basically, he likes big centers with massive concrete parking lots, without the uninvited diversity of the urban core.  He also weakened the Royals on purpose so as to strengthen the bargaining position of ownership when the current labor agreement expires.  A new stadium doesn't play into his labor agenda.

At this point, most of the metro leaders have given up on Glass and they are moving on, letting Jax Co and Glass figure it out on their own.  There are other things to worry about, and our leaders know downtown will be freaking awesome, with or without the Royals.

Bottom line, the Downtown folks can't do anything unless Glass is on board, and he is just plain not.  And without a Downtown play, Jackson County has to do it on its own.

[Danny]

I'm with you GRID, I go back and forth because I love the K, but I also love downtown stadiums.

What about some support from Jeff City? Good lord, is there anything in St. Louis that wasn't built by Jeff City? When is it our turn?

I really hope something gets done.  I mean when i first saw the Truman Complex, I was a little dissapointed.  Trust me, being from Portland, OR.  KC is so lucky to have a NFL and MLB team.  If I had a choice, I would say build two new stadiums.  Where is the leadership  to get things done in this city?  I mean, If Platte County had to shell out money for this thing, I would defintetly say NO unless they're 2 new stadiums. It just doesn't make sense to redo two i believe 30 year old stadiums.  

[WoodDraw]

Over the last month or so, polling has been being done to determine whether or not the massive upgrades would be supported by the voters.  The polls came back showing it was possible, but only if the ballot measure was limited to Jackson County.  Except for Glass and Eastern Jack, the rest of the metro realizes that the Royals need to be downtown, and the polling data showed this as well.

Interesting.  I have a feeling that JaCo will pass this thing if it gets on the ballot.  The BiState polling showed Jackson country defeating BiState II pretty easily and it ended up passing by huge numbers.  There would have to be a vocal no campaign to defeat the money that the yes side would put in. 

[dangerboy]

While there isn't time to make another attempt at bistate before 2007, we could still do a multi-county stadium authority on the Missouri side.  Unfortunately we don't have leaders brave enough to try something like that.

In the end Jackson County voters will approve it.  At least the we'll have the Plaza, Power & Light District, and Eastern Jack as major sales tax generators, including a big chunk from visitors.  If the Downtown Council can't change Glass' mind in the next few months, then we'll have to wait another generation for the opportunity to build a downtown ballpark.

[kcdcchef]

GRID

count me on board as saying i might consider jumping on the bandwagon for the royals downton in 2030, if that is something to think about then. none of us within the confines of kcskyscrapers.com have any idea where we will be in a quarter century, but if there is still baseball, if it still matters, whatever, i will in all seriousness be one to say, he, lets move out of the k in 25 years.

for now, i am happy to see glass is in on this. from what i understand, he spent months, since the defeat of bistate II, with his team, and even in constant communication with lamar hunt and the chiefs, discussing how to soundly come up with a resolution to help the royals stay at kauffman, and how to best present this to the citzens of jackson county. my latest and greatest guess would be that mr. glass has seen what he needs to see from his architectual firm, and from his baseball insiders. they came up with a plan and presented it to him, and the royals board of directors, and now we are seeing mr glass speak out finally.

a lot of people that are stern opponents of bistate II were so because the plans on kauffman and arrowhead were half baked. i saw the sketch for kauffman, not only did it appear as though a child had drawn it, i mean, the reasons and rationale for people like myself loving the k, were destroyed. the scoreboard, and jumbotron removed in favor of dual scoreboards, the stadium club in left field looking like a mcdonalds, now, fast forward months later, and kcroyals insiders are saying that there is a good plan on how to do this, and the approach has now turned to lets spruce up these beautiful facilities. basically, let us now focus our energies on presenting this plan to the voters, lets get to lease negotiating, and lets make a deal.

david glass made no bones about it when he did finally purchase this franchise, that he needed 3 things to restore the royals to glory
    1) a more level playing field in terms of revenue sharing
    2) a salary cap, which we dont have, but luxury tax, the way the big guys spend, is pretty darn close
    3) a renovated kauffman stadium

part of helping to sign mike sweeney through 07 was mr glass personally talking to mike sweeney, and telling him that by the term of the contract those will be in place. well, 1 is getting worked on, i believe we will be either at a cap in 07, or much closer, and hopefully, we will be working towards a renovated kauffman by then.
maybe we will not be in the playoffs in 2007, but perhaps, we will be at a point like 2003, where it is not that far fetched of a dream.

back to the topic of kauffman stadium, it appears now to be getting more and more solid that the royals playing there another quarter of a century, is closer to reality. from where i stand, thank god. i have a lot of great memories of kauffman, and hope to make more there. and perhaps that is now a possibility. i mean, all of us that speak in this forum, particularly with regads to the kansas city royals, love them, and love them dearly, there are some that comment that hate them, but like joe posnanski said, all of those here that say contract the royals, or they will be contracted, screw them, i hate them, fuck kc, allard baird is satan, david glass is human crap, whatever, every one of them, and us out of the closet royal lovers, were all the same last night, affixed on that last inning, saying, c'mon, royals, just hoping, and praying. hell, even as i work on this post, i have been back and forth watching online as the royals mount a 12th inning rally, possibly giving one of our studs of the future, jimmy gobble, his first chance at a win this year.

here we go royals, here we go. in september, i will be at kauffman, hopefully with a lot of forum friends, talking about how we can keep that beautiful facility, for another generation, or two, perhaps, and chanting that lovely chant.

and dont get me wrong, i love pnc in downtown pittsburgh, oriole park in baltimores inner harbor, been to them both, but i think we have something better, and more sentimental, than they do, and what is so wrong with singing lets hang on to what we've got?

[KC0KEK]

 Where is the leadership  to get things done in this city?

Obviously you haven't been downtown in at least a year.

[LenexatoKCMO]

I love the Royals and I am a sucker for voting for almost any infrastructure/capital improvement measure that comes up.  However, there is no way in hell I will vote to shell out 600 million dollars and not get downtown baseball.

[kcdcchef]

well than pay 500 million and get psuedo downtown baseball, tsc is all of five miles away.

[LenexatoKCMO]

tsc is all of five miles away.

might as well be 50

Hell, I could have sworn there were at least five miles of parking lot around TSC. 

[beautyfromashes]

Why not try to do another Bistate proposal with Johnson County getting a new Chiefs stadium in KCK and the Royals one downtown?  We could even thrown in a Wizards stadium at the Parkville location. 

[kcdcchef]

why not just renovate the exsisting ones?
what the fuck is everyone in this forums fear of fucken parking lots? i hate, with a passion, surface parking downtown, it looks like hell. that is the beauty of the sports complex, it is already there, plenty and plenty of parking. and plenty of land on all 4 sides that is screaming for a developer to come in and redo.
hell we could even do a 600m iniative, give 200m each stadium, and 200m to improving the infrastructure around the stadiums. the thing i love most about the forum regulars is that i am starting to see people slowly realize that saving the sports complex, is what we are all about in kcskyscrapers.com, saving treasures of the kc area. here we have the chance to, and all we talk about is throwing them away. we need to save the truman sports complex, there is PLENTY going on downtown kansas city without the royals. i mean, getting 20,000 downtown 81 nights a year is great, but that is 75% of the year that it is dark. i love the k, and we need to keep it where it is.
downtown, has enough going on, let the p&l and sprint center take care of downtown.

[LenexatoKCMO]

why not just renovate the exsisting ones?

Because the amount of money they are asking for isn't that much less than a new park.  Sure I love the K too, but they made one tragic mistake when they built it - a horrible, horrible location.  As we have talked about several times on this forum - plans for fixing the location problem by revising TSC into yet another entertainment/lifestyle complex are way, way too late.  If all they were asking for was $20 million or so to fix up the minimums for the stadium - sure spend the money.  However, $200+ million is a decent chunk of the cost of a new park.  If us taxpayers are going to shell out that kind of money, we might as well correct the K's #1 defect - its location. 

[omenapt]

I am totally about renovating Arrowhead!..I would hate us to lose capacity by building new(as I understand , newer codes would cause that), plus , we need all the space for tailgating, but I still favor DT stadium. for MLB, although the K is beautiful(from the front)..the rear-view from the parking lot would need MAJOR updating to give it a new look..They actually did a pretty good job with the big A out in Anaheim..Guess I'll just have to realize we are more like Orange County then Chicago (can we have their weather , then, also!)

[skim82]

Because the amount of money they are asking for isn't that much less than a new park.  Sure I love the K too, but they made one tragic mistake when they built it - a horrible, horrible location.  As we have talked about several times on this forum - plans for fixing the location problem by revising TSC into yet another entertainment/lifestyle complex are way, way too late.  If all they were asking for was $20 million or so to fix up the minimums for the stadium - sure spend the money.  However, $200+ million is a decent chunk of the cost of a new park.  If us taxpayers are going to shell out that kind of money, we might as well correct the K's #1 defect - its location. 

Exactly!!!  Listen, the fairest way to buld a new DT baseball stadium and have the entire metro support it is to locate it downtown.  That way, Everyone from KCK to Blue Springs can enjoy it. 

THE FACTS RIGHT NOW- David Glass does not have to spend a nickel of his own money if Jackson County voters pass the stadium initiative in April. 

ALSO- If the Royals move DT, Glass will IMO have to fork up at least 25-100 million dollars towards the new stadium. Now, whether that's done through naming rights (ex. Wal-Mart field) or whatever, is up to them. 

THE IRONY-Jackson County voters will be asked to pay for the renovations on their own, and to an extent some Jackson County residents will blame JOCO, and Clay, Platte, Wyandotte Counties, when in reality it was their own inept leadership that f#$@ things up. Also, if David Glass wasn't selfish and to an extent 'smart' he would okay a move downtown.  But, he's rich for a reason.  He knows he doesn't have to spend a dime, and still legally get everything he wants.  I can't blame the guy, I'd do the same thing. 

If a new DT stadium was to be built, Jackson County could possibly get the support of the entire metro to foot the $275 million to $395 million it costs to build a baseball stadium.  However, Jax County has to foot a bill of over $200 million on their own b/c Glass is selfish. 
 

[kcdcchef]

the facts are the man spent what, 110 million of his own to buy the team about 5 years ago??

how many seasons has he profited, two out of five??

he has spent money, and lots of it.

david glass has said he would put up some of his own capital to redo kauffman. he has never said no. in one of the first model prototypes for bi state II, it was talking about mr glass and mr hunt putting up like 20m or something. and there was talk of naming rights to kauffman to generate more cash for the royals, but it is my understanding that the upper management of the kansas city royals did not want to do that, they wanted to keep it called kauffman. whenever this proposal is redone, i hope that those in charge of it come up with something more creative then "think big", i would say remember the cleveland browns leaving cleveland, the baltimore colts leaving baltimore, the saint louis cardinals leaving saint louis, the houston oilers leaving houston, the raiders leaving whereever the hell they are that year, the rams leaving los angeles, and oh yeah, the athletics leaving kansas city.

kansas city should remember, that if the chiefs, or royals leave, who is going to replace them? almost every other team in the majors and the nfl has a deal, or one forthcoming. keep screwing around on this, go ahead and finish defaulting, and try them, see where they go, see kauffman and arrowhead get grown over in weeds, perhaps a gun show or a bridal show once a year in the parking lots, but on the bright side, with all the out of work people in kc because of losing the tens of millions out of the local economy, there will be plenty of people at the gun shows.

and i can back this up a little, a lot of people depend and DEPEND HARD on the money they get working for the royals and chiefs, my mother being one. she depends on her annual salary tearing tickets at the k and collecting parking money at arrowhead, obviusly, she does not make her whole year off it, but it supplements her income nicely, and she depends on it for a car payment. i am guessing, by the looks of some of the people i see out there, there are some who depend on it for more than car payment money. but thats ok, lets go ahead, be real conservative, and say a good hearty fuck em, to all of them, the royals, the chiefs, the people in kc who depend on them ( beyond ticket tearers, they pump millions into the local hospitality market ) and do nothing beyond giving the tsc 20m to undefault, and buy both stadiums a new pepsi machine or something.

[WoodDraw]

Wow, $20 million?  We should be happy about him saying he'll contribute 9% of the total product?  Let's get that up to at least 40%.