Jackson County discusses stadium upgrades

[TheNorthlander]

for $300M in public contributions, we can have a brand spankin new baseball park, and a fully renovated football stadium.  did everyone catch that?

This is my kind of plan...good to see someone actually thinking around here.

[shaffe]

the only trick is finding the $300M 

-$100M from the state of missouri
-$2000M from a bistate tax

eh?  150 apiece?

[WoodDraw]

Getting that much from the state and a bi-state tax doesn't seem all that likely.  I think Jackson County is going to have to come up with most of the money.

[KansasCityCraka]

And another thing, why would we demo kauffman if a new one is built? I say they change it into a soccer complex for the wizards. It has to be cheaper to use old parts than to use all new ones.

[phxcat]

There will hopefully be a sss built way before the Royals ever vacate the K- and I'm not sure how you would turn the existing structure into a nice looking sss without incurring more costs than you would spend just building a new stadium.

[WoodDraw]

There will hopefully be a sss built way before the Royals ever vacate the K- and I'm not sure how you would turn the existing structure into a nice looking sss without incurring more costs than you would spend just building a new stadium.

Yep.  Soccer stadiums are cheap, especially when comapred to football and baseball stadiums.  A soccer only stadium could be built for the money it would take to renovate the K and it would be far better for what the Wizards need. 

[phuqueue]

Downtown baseball makes the product attractive even when the team sucks and lets face it the Royals will need that help more years than not.

You might think so, but the numbers don't support it.  Look at the attendance figures of any bad team with a new downtown stadium.  Attendance has not improved and is comparable to what the Royals draw at Kauffman Stadium.

[TheNorthlander]

  Nice... so go ahead and perpetuate more stupidity. Your guess is shortsighted and shallow. Imagine Monday Night Football... the Goodyear blimp circling western Wyandotte Cty calling it Kansas City and featuring the NASCAR track as the central feature of the city. If you think we get a bad rap and stereotypes now, you won't be able to imagine. Instead of showcasing the city, this would only propel more stupidity about the area and it's attractions.
You are a fool if you think that could never happen. Just like you wouldn't in a million years think the Nascar track would be called 'The Kansas Speedway' and the' Kansas 250' or whatever the idiot race is called.
You forgot to add the taxes and jobs generated from parking, tickets, payroll, hotel rooms, etc. Your attempt at sarcasm is a waste.
Obviously, you don't. That's the problem.
In the 5-10 years it would take to build any new stadium, a new Chief stadium, NASCAR and The Woodlands together would become a major mecca and you can bet construction cranes would be running around the clock on new hotels.

Whatever............

[GRID]

Seriously, why are we even discussing this.  The Chiefs are not going to Kansas and if they leave the TSC, chances are they are going to leave the metro area.

Nobody has yet to explain to me the reasoning to leave the TSC though.  Why, would you leave?  Anybody?

The infrastructure is in place, the site is relatively close to the entire metro area.  I know most Kansans think 435 is eastern jax, but the TSC is pretty damn close to the center of the populated region.

MoDot has spent a ton of money on I-435.  I just drove it and it’s nice now all the way along the east side.  I-70 can’t be far behind.  Much of this money was spent to accommodate large events at the TSC.

Do you guys have ANY freaking idea how much it would cost to build a stadium in KCK?  Try 600 million plus.  You are starting from scratch out there.  You will need to find a site, pave 25,000 parking spaces, build access roads etc, and then you can plop down a 400 million dollar football stadium on it.

Who cares what is by the stadium.  The complex is perfect.  Retail and NFL stadiums do not mix.  Period.  This is why every football stadium in the country is isolated and downtown ones are massive dead zones 350 days a year.  People don’t go to Chiefs games so they can walk across the street and go to shopping for a fridge at NFM.  A Chiefs game is an all day event.

Build a new or seriously remodel Arrowhead.  At least the Chiefs know what they want and are not pissing around like the Royals. 

The Royals should be stating now that they want a new ballpark by 2014 so we can start planning.

Sure, Lamar needs to put up plenty of his own money, but Arrowhead is a Jackson County and KCMO asset and does bring in a ton of money and exposure to the area.  It’s not just Chiefs games, but college, concerts, etc.

Or we can play Russian Roulette and run the Chiefs out of town (and they WILL leave town if this is not solved).  Then KC will step up and build a new stadium with absolutely no help from the NFL or an NFL owner at 100% taxpayers expense to try and lure another team to town. 

In the meantime, the city will loose hundreds of millions in tourism revenue as the city will not be able to recruit college games etc to Arrowhead like the Chiefs do and the city will loose not only one of it’s prized possessions, but really one of its only sources of positive national exposure.

Stop bitching about everything KC and just get some shit done for once.  We are on a role and have a chance to have the spotlight shine solely on KC for the next ten years or so.  Primarily because we are the last city left to rebuild our urban core, stadiums etc.

So what, it might cost me an extra 20 bucks a year,  It’s cheap as all hell to live in this town, I would think at the very least we could have modern up-to-date infrastructure and venues. 

[WoodDraw]

Stop bitching about everything KC and just get some shit done for once.  We are on a role and have a chance to have the spotlight shine solely on KC for the next ten years or so.  Primarily because we are the last city left to rebuild our urban core, stadiums etc.

So what, it might cost me an extra 20 bucks a year,   It’s cheap as all hell to live in this town, I would think at the very least we could have modern up-to-date infrastructure and venues. 

And why should we be expected to pay for the majority of a new stadium or extensive renovations for a very successful business?  I want to keep the Chiefs as much as the next guy but Lamar Hunt hasn't exactly been Mr. Sweetheart owner and I can think of a hell of a lot of ways to spend the millions they want from the tax payers.  If the Chiefs are willing to sit down with TPTB and come up with a fair plan that benefits all involved then I will have no problem voting yes but if they continue to bitch and moan and complain about how hard things are for them and how unfair life is then I'll welcome them to take a look around at other cities.  Go ahead and name for me a city with a big enough football market that is willing to build a new stadium.

[GRID]

I agree, the Hunts are just as much to blame.

[nota]

EXTORTION plain and simple.

[TheNorthlander]

I apologize if my earlier posts offended, but I get frustrated by the lack of creative thinking in this city.  My posts are trying to communicate that 1) that the status quo is not working and 2) a potential move of the Chiefs to Kansas would solved the "bi-state problem," in other words, Kansas taxes would pay for something in Kansas.  Missouri could keep the Royals.  In my mind, this is a possible option for the future of the city, with few negatives.

And I just don't buy this "end of the world" scenario some put forward about the Chiefs moving to Kansas or leaving for that matter.  As far as them moving to another city, I am convinced another team would take their place.  Yes, that option may cost us more money, but I get stubborn when I am threatened by billionaires.

[KCMax]

Why is everyone so insistent on getting new stadiums.  The TSC can be completly new for a quarter the price of new stadiums.  The infrastructure is already there, its the best possible spot in kc for a stadium.  You cant tell me that you would rather wait in traffic for 4 hours after a game, just to get a "new" stadium.  We have a hard enough time coming up with 250 mill for an arena.  What makes you think everyone in the entire city will support an 800 million new sports complex that is in the middle of nowhere.  Absolutely nothing is wrong with the current location.  Im guessing all these people ranting and raving about moving downtown and to JOCO and such, have never even been to a dang game at the TSC, most of them probably are griping because they want to be able to watch the chiefs from the air conditioning of their new condos.

Amen. Football stadiums are EXPENSIVE. Think $500-800 million expensive. And they don't provide the economic stimulus arenas and baseball stadiums provide (which is exaggerated anyway) because they are generally only full 10 days a year!

So tell me again why the Chiefs should get a new stadium, particularly when all they presumabely want is renovations?

Sure, the KC Sports Authority is horribly inept, but I don't see that as a reason to move the team to KCK. Kick the bums out, and renovate Arrowhead.

[KCMax]

personally think we should find $300M of public money somewhere (state, local, county, wherever).  give $50M to the chiefs to renovate arrowhead, and then give arrowhead to the hunt family.  the whole damn complex eventually, but just the stadium for now.  and since we're eventually giving arrowhead, we can rightfully expect at least a 50/50 contribution for any extras.  that gives the chiefs $100M to renovate their stadium, which would be theirs in a matter of years.  (note:  the chiefs made a $41M profit in 2003).  then you give the other $250M to the royals and stipulate they must build an urban stadium in the core.  i know kauffman is beautiful, and i'll be sad to see it go, but pretty soon it's going to head downhill and fast.  if you think that the whole deal will cost approx $400M to build the stadium, that's roughly a 60/40 ( 62.5/37.5) split between the team and the public contrubutions.  once the new kauffman is built (2008/2009ish), you then demo the K and tell the hunt family that the rest of the compelx is theirs.

No way the Chiefs and Royals accept that. Lamar wants a free lunch, and frankly, he has the leverage to demand that. Glass has stated he doesn't want a new stadium.


Nice... so go ahead and perpetuate more stupidity. Your guess is shortsighted and shallow. Imagine Monday Night Football... the Goodyear blimp circling western Wyandotte Cty calling it Kansas City and featuring the NASCAR track as the central feature of the city. If you think we get a bad rap and stereotypes now, you won't be able to imagine. Instead of showcasing the city, this would only propel more stupidity about the area and it's attractions.
You are a fool if you think that could never happen. Just like you wouldn't in a million years think the Nascar track would be called 'The Kansas Speedway' and the' Kansas 250' or whatever the idiot race is called.


This is just retarded. MNF doesn't show shots of Irving and call it "Dallas". It doesn't show shots of New Jersey and call it "New York." We don't call them the Landover Redskins, they are called the Washington Redskins. We don't call them the Orchard Park Bills, we call them the Buffalo Bills.

[shaffe]

personally think we should find $300M of public money somewhere (state, local, county, wherever).  give $50M to the chiefs to renovate arrowhead, and then give arrowhead to the hunt family.  the whole damn complex eventually, but just the stadium for now.  and since we're eventually giving arrowhead, we can rightfully expect at least a 50/50 contribution for any extras.  that gives the chiefs $100M to renovate their stadium, which would be theirs in a matter of years.  (note:  the chiefs made a $41M profit in 2003).  then you give the other $250M to the royals and stipulate they must build an urban stadium in the core.  i know kauffman is beautiful, and i'll be sad to see it go, but pretty soon it's going to head downhill and fast.  if you think that the whole deal will cost approx $400M to build the stadium, that's roughly a 60/40 ( 62.5/37.5) split between the team and the public contrubutions.  once the new kauffman is built (2008/2009ish), you then demo the K and tell the hunt family that the rest of the compelx is theirs.

No way the Chiefs and Royals accept that. Lamar wants a free lunch, and frankly, he has the leverage to demand that. Glass has stated he doesn't want a new stadium.

and what leverage is that?  are we really supposed to believe that he'll walk away from a guaranteed profit?  it's worth saying again.  the chiefs have NEVER, EVER failed to turn a profit in kansas city.  their 2003 proflit alone was $41 million.  if he can get what he wants from the state legislature, fine, but he sure as helll isn't going to be getting his $250M in taxpayer money if it ever comes down to a vote of any kind.  if the poloticians (sp?) want to allocate that money from somewhere else, then that's fine by me.  but i don't think that will happen either.  this "move somewhere else" chip loses more and more leverage the more you think about it.  the hunt family is getting their free lunch in being able to include the value of the stadium in the value of the team.  while theyr'e not going to sell it, it's still a damned nice thing to have a billion dollar franchise at your fingertips.  if he knew that every dollar he put into the stadium was coming directly back to him (or his family), i would guarantee that he'd invest in it.

as for glass, i know what he's said.  but the fact of the matter is that kauffman will eventually need to be replaced, and that time will probably come sooner rather than later.  my personal therory is that he said he didn't want a new stadium so that he could buy some time and look thoroughly into the matter of where to move.  it's probably wrong, but oh well.  if the royals have to come up with $150M, they could probably get most, if not all, from MLB.  they have some sort of loan program, or some way where you can basicly get free money for building a new stadium.  it's how the yankees are paying 100% of the cost for their new $700M (i think) stadium.

[skim82]

Michael,


First you talk about stabbing people and calling people out....... now you're calling everybody a retard.... 

hmm.... great way to make people see your points.......

Oh wait, you don't have any....... all your discussions/arguments pertain to the benefit of Missouri..... 

Give me a break.....  you're starting to make my head hurt.... All you care about is MO, well, I happen to

believe that OUR city encompasses 2 states.... whether you like it or not....

[GRID]

I wouldn’t care if Kansas were the Rockies and KCK was on the front range.

For crying out loud, there is no reason to pull the Chiefs out of the sports complex.  It’s just not going to happen.  Period.

It would cost 800 MILLION dollars to recreate a football stadium and infrastructure in another part of the city when we could spend 300 million on renovations and the stadium will probably be better than a new one because we will get to keep the same bowl.

Sure the Chiefs make a profit here, but again, I don’t think people quite understand the potential money to be made by moving the team to another city.  Hundreds of millions of dollars up front plus a stadium that would produce more revenue than Arrowhead for the Chiefs.  Money that does not go into the revenue sharing pot.

Renovate Arrowhead, that is our only option.  The KS thing is just a tease to get Jeff City to contribute.

[skim82]

I wouldn't care if Kansas were the Rockies and KCK was on the front range.

For crying out loud, there is no reason to pull the Chiefs out of the sports complex. It's just not going to happen. Period.

It would cost 800 MILLION dollars to recreate a football stadium and infrastructure in another part of the city when we could spend 300 million on renovations and the stadium will probably be better than a new one because we will get to keep the same bowl.

Sure the Chiefs make a profit here, but again, I don't think people quite understand the potential money to be made by moving the team to another city. Hundreds of millions of dollars up front plus a stadium that would produce more revenue than Arrowhead for the Chiefs. Money that does not go into the revenue sharing pot.

Renovate Arrowhead, that is our only option. The KS thing is just a tease to get Jeff City to contribute.

Grid,

I respect your comments, but I would like to reiterate my points....

-The Chiefs are playing in a 30+ year old sports complex

-The infrastructure within the stadiums are rapidly deteorating


-It is totally untrue that Village West can't handle the gameday traffic... only 10 times a year.... maybe more, if we're in the playoffs.
(KS speedway handles over 80,000 on race weekends.)

-800 Million Dollars is a undocumented figure....  I would say 500 M + Private and Name sponsorship..

-Jeff City never cooperated in the first place... why would they start now..... They always bow down to StL but KC is just a red headed stepchild to them..... for reals.... and if anyone disagrees, you don't know what the hell you're talking about..

-I agree.... I love the "bowl" of Arrowhead... It's a great stadium...  But...... I think we're all kidding ourselves if we don't take seriously that Clark Hunt will ask for a brand new stadium in less than 15 years after we spend 150-200 M on our lovely "bowl"

-The Chiefs DO make a profit here....  However they could make more... Any true football fan realizes that with the strict salary cap in professional football, SIGNING BONUSES.... are what signs top-notch free agents like Patrick Surtain....  Think about it, that 7.50 beer could be cheaper if they made more money in concessions.....but to also be realistic,  beer prices probably won't go down...

-Even if KC is a smaller market than let's say....New York... KC can still compete with the Giants because there is so much revenue sharing amongst teams in the NFL.... 

-If everyone keeps saying the Chiefs aren't going anywhere..... LA will come calling.....  Clark Hunt lives somewhere on an island in the Pacific (Seriously)...  Why would'nt he hesitate to move the team to sunny LA....

-Saying the LA Chiefs would be 2nd rate and behind other SoCal attractions..... is stupid.... Who cares???? Clark will have a brand new stadium....and Super Bowls..... and Celebs..... and for god's sake, If the LA Chiefs win,  fans will show up....  ChaChing...

-I'm not trying to put anyone down... but these are very real concerns we have with the Chiefs....

[WoodDraw]

You think LA is going to build the Chiefs a new stadium?  I doubt that.