Jackson County discusses stadium upgrades

[phuqueue]

those pussy owners folded, FOLDED, in 02, when the players were gonna strike, AGAIN, and should not have. see what the NHL did?? lost an entire season, and got a cap. now, ALL the teams can compete.

And...here's where you lost me.  I do agree that MLB needs a salary cap, but you can't honestly think losing an entire season was good for the NHL.  People were barely still aware of the NHL before the lockout, and it remains to be seen how this is going to affect the league long-term.  MLB is in a much stronger position than the NHL in terms of popularity and national prominence, but it still took MLB years to recover from the 1994 strke in terms of attendance numbers.  MLBPA is one of the strongest unions in the country.  Can't really blame the owners for being a little skittish when they're just recovering from the effects of the last strike and they don't have a very good chance of coming out on top if they try to challenge the players association again anyway.

and as far as the arguments about minnesotta and oakland, big deal. they win their divisions almost every damn year, and GO NOWHERE!!!!! when you cannot outspend the big guys, you will not be able to beat them.

It's true that the Twins and A's haven't won the World Series, but it's silly to minimize what they've done.  The A's have won more than 90 games each of the past five years (back to back 100+ win seasons in 2001 and 2002).  They haven't gotten past the ALDS, but they've taken it to Game 5 every time (except last year, when 91 wins wasn't good enough to make the playoffs in the AL West), and were beaten by the Twins one of those years.  And let's not forget 2003, when the Marlins, with the 25th-ranked payroll in the league, beat the Yankees in the World Series.  It's not fair that smaller market teams should have to fight an uphill battle by default, but it's not impossible to succeed, even in this environment.

[KCMax]

A SALARY CAP DOES NOTHING TO HELP THE ROYALS!!!!!

[im2kull]

And...here's where you lost me.  I do agree that MLB needs a salary cap, but you can't honestly think losing an entire season was good for the NHL. 

Loosing an entire season was good for the NHL.  The owners even said that they were making more money than if the players had been playing, thats how messed up the salarys were in the league.  Almost 85% of the money made went to the players, did you know Hockey players are the highest paid pro sports athletes in the world.  Who would have thought that.  There was a reason the players wanted to settle, not the owners, the owners had nothing to lose.

[doogieslap]

The key thing about the NHL lockout is that even though there were a few franchises on the sale block, there were no takers. 

That's a telling sign.  So many mid and smaller market teams in that league (under the old operating structure) that couldn't compete for players with the largest markets, and at the same time, in trying to compete with the likes of the Rangers, they fell into debt. 

Had that cycle continued, you would have actually seen some franchises close their doors because there was no incentive to keep operating.

Had Bob Goodenow not been an arrogant blowhard, he could have salvaged a little bit better of a deal for the players than the one they got.

But whatever, it's done.  And maybe that will mean a team here in a few years.

[Danny]

The key thing about the NHL lockout is that even though there were a few franchises on the sale block, there were no takers.

That's a telling sign. So many mid and smaller market teams in that league (under the old operating structure) that couldn't compete for players with the largest markets, and at the same time, in trying to compete with the likes of the Rangers, they fell into debt.

Had that cycle continued, you would have actually seen some franchises close their doors because there was no incentive to keep operating.

Had Bob Goodenow not been an arrogant blowhard, he could have salvaged a little bit better of a deal for the players than the one they got.


Exactly...

But whatever, it's done. And maybe that will mean a team here in a few years.

[phuqueue]

Loosing an entire season was good for the NHL.  The owners even said that they were making more money than if the players had been playing, thats how messed up the salarys were in the league.  Almost 85% of the money made went to the players, did you know Hockey players are the highest paid pro sports athletes in the world.  Who would have thought that.  There was a reason the players wanted to settle, not the owners, the owners had nothing to lose.

The owners weren't making any money during the lockout, but that's no different from normal; without having to pay salaries, they simply lost less money than they would during a normal season.  Getting a cap was good for the NHL, but losing an entire season most definitely was not.  You're not considering what effect losing the season will have on the fans.  Like I said, baseball's attendance numbers have only recently recovered and reached pre-strike levels, and the NHL certainly isn't as popular or secure as MLB.  Whether or not the NHL survives the lockout is yet to be seen.  If no one shows up to the games, no one watches on TV, and no one buys the merchandise, the league will die a quiet death and most Americans probably won't even notice.  That's the situation the NHL finds itself in now.  That's not to say that the NHL is definitely doomed, but there's no way the league is better off for losing a year.  The next few seasons will ultimately determine what happens to the NHL.

[im2kull]

The owners weren't making any money during the lockout, but that's no different from normal; without having to pay salaries, they simply lost less money than they would during a normal season. 

But my point is that it was still better than having them lose all the money during the season under the old system and folding at the end of the year.  Its better to get a scar then to die.  At least they can recover from this, even if short term it might not have been the best thing.

[phuqueue]

But my point is that it was still better than having them lose all the money during the season under the old system and folding at the end of the year.  Its better to get a scar then to die.  At least they can recover from this, even if short term it might not have been the best thing.

It most definitely remains to be seen whether they can recover from this.  That's my entire point.

[kcdcchef]

in the national hockey league, the players made 86% of the revenues. and the owners 14. baseball is FAR worse. a cap will help the royals, and everyone else. fuck oakland winning 100 games, just like minnesotta doing the same. they beat the hell out of kc and detroit all year, just like oakland does with texas and seattle. we need that cap bad. in this last labor thing, the point of mr glass almost got heard, next time it will. hockey owners reported smaller losses in 04-05. without a fucken season. they will report smaller losses in MLB wthout a season. is it not great to sit here and talk about the chiefs possibly going to the playoffs? because of that cap, and revenue sharing. the royals could have had, in 04, what minnessotta and oakland have. because 03 was that good. and just like every other time when kc gets close in baseball, 94, 89, the management screws the chemistry. in 89, we won 90 games and were 2nd to oakland, then bought those davis boys, storm and mark, and gerald perry, lost liebrandt to get that idiot perry, etc, in 94, we would have won the wild card, but a strike happened, then we went on a purge and dumped cone, joyner, and mcrae, who, was righting the ship at the time. same thing in 03 people, as opposed to getting the pieces we needed, we went out and got that moron gonzalez, santiago, and ruined the chemistry of 03. as shitty as they are now, we should all drive to the K and thank mr glass, and mr baird, for finally seeing it through. as painful as this is for all of us, they are finally sticking with the young arms, hernandez, greinke, bautista ( when he comes back ) wood, as opposed to panicking about 110 losses and making moves, let them rot, let us set a franchise record for losses, hell, lets lose the last 48 and set a major league record, then, perhaps, finally, we will rebuild, like we always say. every single time this franchise starts a youth movement, they smell victory, and scrap it. stick with these youngsters, berroa, buck, teahan, the young arms, and let it happen.and you know what? we are all so pissed off at how bad it has finally gotten, because they are finally doing just that. we do not need a downtown stadium, or one in kansas. tSC is fine as is, but does need hundreds of millions to reno both. you have no idea until you go to oriole park, pnc park, ballpark at arlington, new soldier field, heinz field, you have no idea how far behind we are in the beyond ballpark experience, those concourses need widened, new restaurants, new retail, all that stuff. we need it bad. it will help both clubs, chiefs, and royals, david glass when he took over this team, and yes, i am aware i bitch about him in this forum, said he had to have renovations, a cap, and revenue sharing, his hard line, with owners, has made revenue sharing, however shitty it presently is,exsist. it will get better. it all will. both stadiums are among the most beautiful in pro sports. it is not what you see, it is what you dont see, and they have to work on that. the beyond the game experience, at both stadiums, sucks, luckily we have tailgating, but we need more.

[KCMax]

the players made 86% of the revenues. and the owners 14.

That's patently false. By the MLB owners own records from a few years ago, (which I think are pretty shady) players made 56% of revenues - which is just a few percentage points above what it was in the 80s.

I don't know the numbers in the NHL, but 86% sounds WAY to high. It would make me think that anyone would be an idiot to invest in an NHL team.

I just don't see how a cap helps the Royals. They HAVE a cap in the AL Central right now! And guess what? The Royals STILL can't beat Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit, Minnesota....hell, the Royals can't even beat the Devil Rays and they have a LOWER payroll than the Royals!

[kcdcchef]

there is no point for you and i to sit here and go back and forth. we both know the owners numbers are shady, i guessed at the 86, but from what the internal audit of the nhl showed, from an auditor the players and owners agreed to, the number was eighty something, i think it was 84 or 86. it was ridiculous, but you have to remember, the nhl does not have the tv money mlb and nfl have. the royals cant beat anyone right now, and i am alone in saying, good. we were able to beat them off and on over the past 10 years, but right now, we suck, and SUCK bad. thank god. let it be, let us follow the blueprint of minnessotta, oakland, and now, san diego. get the best youngsters you have, and let em play, and come together. they are. slow, and paiinfully, but they are. and a cap in the al central, the royals are 31st out of 32 in payroll. there is no cap in the central, the indians, twins, and chisox are all 10 milliion ahead of the royals, but you are right, that is our cap. whatever the best in the central is, is our cap. because of the scheduling, we play them more than anyone else. if we follow what cleveland and minnessotta are doing, we will be successful. just not this year, or next year. we have to give this all time. and be patient. we are not patient, because the royals have said rebuild and youth movement too much, and never stuck with it. first with mcrae, damon, hamelin, then later with beltran, sweeney, and dye. and everytime they went after golden oldies like juan gone, darrell may, santiago, on and on, hoping that we could win. cleveland started this with there young guys, thome, olin, and let em play. minn did the same with their rotation. wanna talk about oaklands rotation? mulder, zito, and those guys from the last few seasons? they tore it apart with trades, and rebuilt it quite nicely. we have to stick this out, it will be worth it, when grienke learns control, when hernandez grows up some more, when bautista comes back, when buck learns how to hit consistently, if we can talk sweeney into staying til 08, this will be special, you wait, you will see. a cap will help, because if we get to this promised land, these guys will do their 6 seasons, and outprice themselves out of kc. that is why, as great a story as minnessotta, oakland, cleveland, and so on is, they falter every year in the end. oakland will not go anywhere in oct, neither will minn or chi. and their studs will leave via free agency like every year.