Washington Square - new stadium at night

[staubio]

Argue points rather than "feel"-- whatever that means:

Mass transit access.

Parking.

Economic benefits to the city.

Surrounding bar district.

Commuter rail.

Its been done 10 times and it is moot anyway.

[voltopt]

Here is a month old post about this very topic. 
Please tell me how Washington Square Park demolishes fewer buildings, and is any larger than the north loop site.
also, please describe vehicular access to the site.  I know commuter rail is a great idea, and a plus for the Wash. Square site, but there is terrible highway access at Main street and Pershing.
a stadium there would create an inwardly focused, insular experience similar to Crown Center, and this "bar district" would either be in Union Station or in Crown Center.  So one would walk across Pershing or cross in a skywalk. It is connected only to these large large scale entities, Union Station and Crown Center, and divided by railroad tracks to the north.  which is like the North loop site, which is divided by an interstate highway.  And no, a "ballpark village" or whatever doesn't need to span the highway, that's just an idea.  there is plenty of empty space near 8th and Central to accomodate this "ballpark village" or whatever.  this site is connected to the city... look at the graphics.  remember what exists in these areas... buildings are across pedestrian scaled streets in downtown.  with storefronts.  think of the Phoenix.    . it would be right across the street from the Home Plate Entrance.  on the street.  The Wash. Square site is across Large Boulevard type streets, and the buildings with whatever ballpark ancillary uses are inwardly focused. 

okay okay, here are both sites from roughly the same elevation in the sky.
i highlighted the area for the ballpark in orange, and i highlited the VACANT (parking lot or empty) area within a 2 block distance from the boundary of the ballpark site. 

one site, you lose a great public park
the other, you lose a great old building.

one site is not very dense, but the view is (washington)
one site is very dense, but the view isn't (8th street)

one site has excellent access to I-70 and other highways (8th street)
one site has terrible access to highways (washington)

both sites will provide views. 
i think its more important to put people in the 8th street  area.
look at all of the buildings that could use that extra support.
look at the extra empty lots that noone is using nearby. 
is anyone here even familiar with this site?
anyway, here are the crude graphics i slipped in while working today...

washington square....



8th and central



oh yeah, and the washington square site, with a typical northeast homeplate centerfield axis (which is what everyone is sketching)
would not show off the following...  bartle hall, fine arts center, anything west of main, essentially.

[beautyfromashes]

Well, I think it's all a moot point now because the land for the former PAC is now the frontrunner for a stadium.  But, can someone show me the layout for putting the stadium to the direct west of Union Station ?  It actually is right next to I35 and would have the best access to highways.  I'd like to see it compared to the other three spots mentioned.

[voltopt]

here is the graphic of Kauffman overlain on the Union Station site at roughly the same scale.  there is empty land to be devloped near there.  of course, there is a brand new parking garage on this site now, and the former freight house has been redeveloped, so this is near impossible.  but it would have been cool to reuse the old freighthouse as the right field lower level concourse, and build the upper deck over the existing building.  just imagine... someday, with time, i'll sketch something up. 

okay, just a quick exercise.
at a relatively similar scale, here is Kauffman on the Parking Garage site near West of Union Station.  I know the Left field could also be shortened. notice all of the opportunity for development around it (including the IRS site)
and the access to I-35 via SW boulevard and West Pennway.
this idea was from sketching on a napkin five years ago.
unfortunately, there is an IRS site and a parking garage now.
oh well.

[beautyfromashes]

We're going to have to tear down buildings on any of the sites listed so far.  Why not a parking garage?

[K.C.Highrise]

Sorry but I have to ask the question, is this debate going to go on for the next 7 years, and even then it's a maybe. We need to focus on.. god forbid.. the Royals having a winning season. The Royals suck right now, we have not money for a stadium, frankly I find that all these sites would be put to better use as high rise residential... within the next 3 years.

[beautyfromashes]

Winning season?  Winning season.  Trying to get my mind to grasp that one.  I think maybe I have more hope in the stadium being built then the Royals actually making the playoffs.  Maybe, that's why I talk about it.  Better to focus on the things you have hope in.  And all this is from a season ticket holder. 

[voltopt]

and residential high rises?

in a park?
what about all of the open land for development?

[staubio]

and residential high rises?

in a park?
what about all of the open land for development?

All we need is about 500,000 new rich people ready to move into all of the residential highrises everyone is proposing. 

[trailerkid]

1. It appears there are 4 buildings to be demolished at the North Loop site. There is one at Wash Square. I'm also assumed the North Loop site is owned by different owners whereas Wash Square is the city, Union Station, and Blue Cross/Blue Shield.

2. Wash Square would have access from more major streets and transit patterns than the North Loop (Central, Bdwy, and 7th/Admiral vs. Main, Pershing, Oak/Gilham, McGee). The Watkins Freeway exit at 22nd in addition to the current I-35 exit would feed the Wash Square site. Of course these interchanges would need upgrades as would the North Loop interchanges.

As I said before, Wash Square allows for commuter rail as well as possible light rail and current BRT transit. North Loop allows for none of the above.

3. I think the South Xroads have a much greater potential for lending itself to an aftergame party than the North Loop does. It is much more gritty and ecletic and reminiscent of areas like Wrigleyville. Grand and Oak both have a large stock of 2-3 story buildings that are underused/vacant-- I don't fully remember Main's situation. In addition, Union Station would serve as a hub for fans with restaurants, shops, and bars for before the game and after.

There is no comparison for what a stadium would do for Crown Center, Liberty Memorial, the South Xroads, and Union Station when you compare it to the surroundings of the North Loop. The economic infrastructure is already there at Washington Square Park and a ballpark would be a home run.

[StL_Dan]

Where do you park?

Wish I had a dime for every time that HUGE objection was raised.