Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Discussion about new sports facilities in Kansas City
flyingember
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stad

Post by flyingember » Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:09 pm

I don't see that the location is the problem

there's nothing wrong with helping a big project for the spin-off effect if you have the numbers down. like the savoy hotel project should increase tax dollars in property taxes and that's good. imagine if the city took it a step further. they could have had contingencies you could have requirements for X dollars in room night taxes and restaurant taxes while the property taxes are lower. if the hotel does it they keep their tax incentives and the benefit from filling rooms. they have it in their interests to make the area around them be active. not just directly but this company doubtless knows people with money. it would be a way to bring people who develop parcels into buildings and grow the neighborhood so people want to go to the Savoy.

so I would like to see future public funding for a ballpark tied to tax dollars produced around the stadium. they could argue over the distance. you want to make it be about increased existing area development. it's not like sports teams don't know people with tons of money. development could bring people to the area for whatever reason that could then buy a ticket to a game that's not sold out. could even build in profit sharing past some threshold of these taxes. the team agrees to this idea and some percentage of overages goes to the team. give them 5 years to produce some results or city incentives start to fall off. each 5 years they have to meet another stage of development.

Would be in the team's interests to help move downtown or push development around the stadium. both areas could use the help and would be respectful results.

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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stad

Post by DaveKCMO » Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:32 am

the new mayor of independence is now very angry, although she makes an excellent point about what would happen to the existing stadium if a new one were built downtown (likely demolished, although there are reuse possibilities).

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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stad

Post by bobbyhawks » Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:19 pm

DaveKCMO wrote:the new mayor of independence is now very angry, although she makes an excellent point about what would happen to the existing stadium if a new one were built downtown (likely demolished, although there are reuse possibilities).
It is a point, but I don't really understand why people should care. First of all, I don't see how "decimating" the economy of that area would really impact anything. That area is a black hole other than the baseball stadium, so any economic benefit to crappy bars, strip clubs, and the Taco Bell are not really improving the quality of life. The stadium is in Kansas City, MO, so I don't believe stadium money is going to Independence. The entire point of the downtown argument is that you put the stadium in a place where they are likely to do more than just drive and park. That is what happens today from all parts of the city.

People shopping in Independence during the World Series would still do the exact same amount of shopping (or negligible difference) there if the stadium were downtown (and there was a World Series). Nobody who lives in town is driving to Independence for Royals stuff prior to a game other than people who already live in Independence. They are shopping in their own neighborhoods (because there is nothing to do near the stadium), driving to the game, and parking in an ocean of asphalt. At the end of the game, they drive home drunk because there are no entertainment-related reasons to stay around or to get a hotel room.
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grovester
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stad

Post by grovester » Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:13 pm

I guess she may have a faint point if folks are staying at the crappy hotels around the stadiums, they MIGHT venture to Independence/Truman Library/Home or other areas east than if they are staying downtown.

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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stad

Post by FangKC » Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:15 pm

One has to remember that the Truman Sports Center stadiums are funded by Jackson County voters and taxpayers, and not just those living in Kansas City, Missouri. So mayors of Independence, Blue Springs, and Raytown might argue that moving the stadiums affects them, since their citizenry help fund the stadiums. They might argue that their municipalities benefit from having the stadiums where they are (from hotels, motels, restaurants, bars, gas stations, convenience stores), and some businesses benefit from having sales from sports event attendees.

If I recall the history of the stadium placement, the location choice had to do with politics of getting voters in Eastern Jackson County on board to build and fund the stadiums.

If you remove Jackson County voters as the primary taxpayers involved in funding, and switch it over to just those living in Kansas City, Missouri, then you might be able to move the stadiums downtown. That is assuming KCMO voters in Platte and Clay counties go along with it.

Stadium location will always depend on the funding mechanism and politics of that.

The only thing I worry about moving the stadiums downtown is site choice, and how one will deal with parking. I don't want to see a stadium surrounded by a sea of surface parking lots. I don't want to see a site that would involved demolition of any remaining historic building stock. I wouldn't oppose it if the buildings being demolished were simply concrete block type warehouses, or nondescript structures that are easily replaced somewhere else.

In the past, locations in the North Loop were proposed, I worried that this might involved demolition of the apartment building on Central between W. 6th and 7th streets. Another suggestion involved the general area of the Crossroads from Central east to Grand south of Truman Road. There are several historic buildings that might require demolition for that plan: Hanna Rubber Co. building, Lane Printing Building; the building where Anton's is; the Nara Restaurant building; and the buildings along the west side of Walnut between Truman Road and W. 17th Street.

In many ways, it would all come down to location, and minimizing the effect on downtown building stock that already exists.

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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stad

Post by aknowledgeableperson » Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:33 pm

If you remove Jackson County voters as the primary taxpayers involved in funding, and switch it over to just those living in Kansas City, Missouri, then you might be able to move the stadiums downtown. That is assuming KCMO voters in Platte and Clay counties go along with it.
Just think of what a cost of a new stadium would be. Now, just the stadium then throw in the land cost which would be variable depending on where it was located. My SWAG would put the cost somewhere between $600M and $700M (not current costs but future costs on when built). One can expect the Royals to kick in some but I wouldn't expect much, probably in the neighborhood of $150M. So most favorable amount the City would have to raise in taxes would be $450M. The question is what taxes would you raise and how much? Property taxes? Sales taxes? What priority would you put on this compared to other needs of the city? Streetcar tax or stadium tax?

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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stad

Post by pash » Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:40 pm

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Eon Blue
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stad

Post by Eon Blue » Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:24 am

So if you have the state line as the third base line, would the home team insist on using the third base dugout so they could say they are working in KS and avoid city income taxes?

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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stad

Post by chaglang » Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:58 am

Go big. Site it so the left half of the field is in Kansas. Besides being a fun metaphor for Kansas politics, we could truthfully say that Lorenzo Cain is fast enough to cover two states.

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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stad

Post by chingon » Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:33 am

Our baseball stadium should be near 18th and Paseo. I don't see how this is even a debate.

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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stad

Post by Eon Blue » Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:37 am

How about the northwest corner of Truman & Troost? 12th to Truman, Troost to Holmes. Only a couple buildings of significance and they could be built around.

*waits for it*

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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stad

Post by aknowledgeableperson » Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:40 am

How about Peculiar MO where Charlie Finley wanted to move the A's 50 years ago?

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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stad

Post by KCMax » Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:09 am

chingon wrote:Our baseball stadium should be near 18th and Paseo. I don't see how this is even a debate.
YES. Serve as a bridge between 18th and Vine and East Crossroads. No-brainer to me.

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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stad

Post by bobbyhawks » Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:51 pm

KCMax wrote:
chingon wrote:Our baseball stadium should be near 18th and Paseo. I don't see how this is even a debate.
YES. Serve as a bridge between 18th and Vine and East Crossroads. No-brainer to me.
That would be pretty cool. The Negro Leagues Museum would be right next to the stadium, and 18th and Vine district could essentially be the "Wrigleyville" or "BBQ-ville" of KC.

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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stad

Post by pash » Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:12 pm

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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stad

Post by grovester » Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:54 pm

It is the perfect solution. Fills that east/west void, highway access, lack of valuable tear downs (presumed), run a streetcar all the way down 18th. Somebody needs to start planting the seeds on it now so it's fully formed in 20 years.

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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stad

Post by chaglang » Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:03 pm

I like the idea, but there are a fair number of people living around 18th and Paseo. NW of that intersection would have the least impact to residents: Manual HS and a huge KCATA facility. 18th/71/Truman/Paseo may not be a big enough, tho. May have to cross 18th and go all the way to the railroad cut. But the city owns part of the land already, so that's a plus.

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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stad

Post by flyingember » Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:36 am

the issue with that spot is it would have a huge impact on the neighborhood. you would suddenly have people tearing down homes to put in private parking lots and garages.

if the stadium is moved downtown it needs to be at a major garage and *on* a major transit corridor that is a lined with existing parking garages AND close to large hotels.
Look at St. Louis and Minneapolis for good examples of this.

The best place for the stadium in terms of the whole environment would actually be between Crown Center and Union Hill on the large parking lots there.

It would validate the cost of a streetcar path to Linwood to pass by Hospital Hill to have diversity of access and help redevelopment move towards Holmes even more, putting pressure to redevelop along Troost. It would bring tens of thousands of more people to crown center 100 times a year which is the other half of downtown to the CBD.

It's also inbetween Troost MAX and Main St MAX today maximizing access to stadium jobs for the east side.

It's close to the best commuter terminal at Union Station without needing another stop in that system. And that also puts it at Amtrak for easier access for people coming across state. We need more reasons to get more daily trains on that system.

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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stad

Post by Eon Blue » Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:42 pm

flyingember wrote:The best place for the stadium in terms of the whole environment would actually be between Crown Center and Union Hill on the large parking lots there.
I like that location idea, but I think it might be a tight fit if you want to avoid encroaching on Union Cemetery.

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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stad

Post by kcjak » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:41 pm

Eon Blue wrote:
flyingember wrote:The best place for the stadium in terms of the whole environment would actually be between Crown Center and Union Hill on the large parking lots there.
I like that location idea, but I think it might be a tight fit if you want to avoid encroaching on Union Cemetery.
There's little opportunity for spinoff development for the southern Crown Center location, although the CC parking facilities could maybe be utilized. Troost is a bit too far and Main is isolated by the cemetery and residential.

While we're dreaming, I like the idea of tearing down the Blue Cross building and cramming the stadium in over the railroad trench north of Washington Sq park - right on the streetcar and Amtrak lines, visually the best location when looking out from the stadium, increased traffic to Crown Center and Union Station and bridges CC to the Crossroads.

After that spot, I like the north loop.

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