Downtown ballpark and condos

Discussion about new sports facilities in Kansas City
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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Postby KCPowercat » Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:42 am

I meant outside the complex itself....take down taco bell, etc......you condemn land and hand it over, it would happen....but like you said, they aren't interested in it.  Fine by me...building faux development around stadiums in the suburbs seems silly to me....but some people like outlet malls.
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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Postby KCMax » Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:14 am

GRID wrote:Problem is KCMO has nothing to do with the TSC, it's Jackson County and neither one of them have any interest in getting into the development business.


They do, just in Lee's Summit, not near the TSC.
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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Postby ShowMeKC » Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:00 am

Just a question: Wouldn't building development around the TSC decrease the likelihood that in 20-30 years they won't move the Royals to Downtown?

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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Postby DaveKCMO » Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:51 am

ShowMeKC wrote:Just a question: Wouldn't building development around the TSC decrease the likelihood that in 20-30 years they won't move the Royals to Downtown?


i think so.

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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Postby Maitre D » Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:58 am

ShowMeKC wrote:Just a question: Wouldn't building development around the TSC decrease the likelihood that in 20-30 years they won't move the Royals to Downtown?


Royals aren't ever moving DT.  

KCMO loves suburban baseball too much, and the Glass family loves free handouts too much.
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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Postby rxlexi » Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:59 pm

okay, here's where things get a little touchy with me regarding a future downtown park: if we keep Kauffman now, let's keep it forever.  In another 25 to 30 years it will be a true classic, 60~ years old, and probably the last of it's era, the only concrete stadium left and still a piece of the unique design of the TSC.  My god, if we keep it now and the renos look great, the last thing I went to do is talk myself into how great it is that we're keeping this piece of our sports and architectural history, how a DT park is overrated, etc. and then know that it will just be blown up later for a DT yard that I'll be waiting another decade for.  Kauffman, renovated, with solid transit connections, infrastructure improvements nearby and just a few close bars/clubs/retail etc. can still be a great place to catch a ballgame, but we've gotta work at improving the whole picture.

granted, after all of that (and many debates in my head), I can finally see that not building a new park downtown was annoyingly shortsighted and, really, a huge mistake, IMO.  We have the land and (most of) the money.  Just not the desire from ownership, WTF?  At the very least, I really, really hope that we at least find a way to turn the TSC area into more of a destination, or at least lessen it's status as a place to get the f- out of after a game, as we've been discussing.
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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Postby Maitre D » Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:19 pm

rxlexi wrote: Kauffman, renovated, with solid transit connections, infrastructure improvements nearby and just a few close bars/clubs/retail etc. can still be a great place to catch a ballgame, but we've gotta work at improving the whole picture.



But taht's the whole rub - there will never be transit, or bars, or much of anything in that area.  Ever. 
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Re: Cordish projects in other cities

Postby NDTeve » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:06 pm

reading this once again pisses me off that our stadium is in an industrial suburb and not downtown. Yes, I will continue to beat that horse to death.
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Re: Cordish projects in other cities

Postby KansasCityCraka » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:11 pm

NDTeve wrote:reading this once again pisses me off that our stadium is in an industrial suburb and not downtown. Yes, I will continue to beat that horse to death.


It was dead a long time ago.
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Re: Cordish projects in other cities

Postby NDTeve » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:12 pm

Thanks for the tip. I hadn't noticed.
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Re: Cordish projects in other cities

Postby Maitre D » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:22 pm

NDTeve wrote:reading this once again pisses me off that our stadium is in an industrial suburb and not downtown. Yes, I will continue to beat that horse to death.


I've been leading the charge for 4 yeras now.  Get back in line and wait for your instructions, this isn't a free-for-all.
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Re: Cordish projects in other cities

Postby NDTeve » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:23 pm

Its every man for himself. I'm no sheep.
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Re: Cordish projects in other cities

Postby LenexatoKCMO » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:25 pm

Maitre D wrote:I've been leading the charge for 4 yeras now.   Get back in line and wait for your instructions, this isn't a free-for-all.


Remembering is important - its a mistake that should never, ever be forgotten.  10 years from now someone will need to be able to explain to the school children why Kansas City is the only team left in the majors still playing in a stadium surrounded by parking lots in the middle of nowhere.  

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Re: Cordish projects in other cities

Postby MoMan » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:38 pm

LenexatoKCMO wrote:10 years from now someone will need to be able to explain to the school children why Kansas City is the only team left in the majors still playing in a stadium surrounded by parking lots in the middle of nowhere. 


Oooooh, the humanity.

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Re: Cordish projects in other cities

Postby Maitre D » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:49 pm

LenexatoKCMO wrote:Remembering is important - its a mistake that should never, ever be forgotten.  10 years from now someone will need to be able to explain to the school children why Kansas City is the only team left in the majors still playing in a stadium surrounded by parking lots in the middle of nowhere.  


If Kansas Citians had any memory-capabilities, they'd have recalled the disastrous decision to renovate Kemper.


But guess what?
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Re: Cordish projects in other cities

Postby MoMan » Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:10 pm

LenexatoKCMO wrote:Remembering is important - its a mistake that should never, ever be forgotten.  10 years from now someone will need to be able to explain to the school children why Kansas City is the only team left in the majors still playing in a stadium surrounded by parking lots in the middle of nowhere. 


The TSC is about 8 miles from downtown.  That's hardly the middle of nowhere.

Of course a ballpark downtown would have been much more enchanting than the industrial, economically depressed immediate environs of Kauffman Stadium.  But it's not like the stadium is in Olathe or Excelsior Springs:  It's located at the intersection of two busy interstates, is a leisurely drive for most people in the metro, and affords fans ample parking for which they don't have to hunt or pay a (comparatively) exhorbitant price.  Sadly, that's what's proven to be important to the people in this metro--and probably even moreso to the people from small towns in the area who make up a sizeable percentage of the fan base.

The renovated K should make it an even more enjoyable place to watch a baseball game, and cement its reputation as one of the prettiest parks in the majors.  And if the Royals ever figure out how to win consistently and be competitive, as they were in the late 70s and early 80s, I'm sure the absence of nearby bars and restaurants and a skyline view over the outfield won't keep the fans away any more than it did back then.

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Re: Cordish projects in other cities

Postby Maitre D » Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:20 pm

MoMan wrote:It's located at the intersection of two busy interstates, is a leisurely drive for most people in the metro, and affords fans ample parking


So why didn't we put the Sprint Center, P&L, or the PAC right next to it then?
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Re: Cordish projects in other cities

Postby MoMan » Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:53 pm

Maitre D wrote:So why didn't we put the Sprint Center, P&L, or the PAC right next to it then?


Perhaps because those venues weren't designed to accomodate 40,000+ patrons?

I hoped as much as anyone that a new baseball stadium would be built downtown.  My point was that the current stadium is at least in a very convenient location that, for better or worse, most baseball fans in this region appreciate. 

Hell, I remember Kansas fans using the excuse that the difficulty of getting to Arrowhead and its "scary" surroundings suppressed their attendance at the football game vs. Mizzou.  Imagine how horrified Ethel and Wilbur from Shawnee, KS would be if they had to actually drive by a few homeless panhandlers downtown while hunting for a parking spot?

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Re: Cordish projects in other cities

Postby Maitre D » Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:57 pm

MoMan wrote:Perhaps because those venues weren't designed to accomodate 40,000+ patrons?


How many people were DT on Friday nite of the Big 12 tourney?  40K is my guess.


I hoped as much as anyone that a new baseball stadium would be built downtown.  My point was that the current stadium is at least in a very convenient location that, for better or worse, most baseball fans in this region appreciate. 


It's no more convenient than if it were DT.  The same highway access is there.  From JoCo, it's 25min either way.  It's closer to the Northland.  It's closer to KCK.  It's closer to those living from Brookside all the way to the River Market.

From Blue Springs or Independence, yes:  it's closer.  But that's not the bulk of the metro population nor is it hte bulk of those who have disposable income.


Hell, I remember Kansas fans using the excuse that the difficulty of getting to Arrowhead and its "scary" surroundings suppressed their attendance at the football game vs. Mizzou.  Imagine how horrified Ethel and Wilbur from Shawnee, KS would be if they had to actually drive by a few homeless panhandlers downtown while hunting for a parking spot?


True.  Kansas fans are terrified of going DT for sporting events:

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Re: Cordish projects in other cities

Postby GRID » Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:10 pm

LenexatoKCMO wrote:Remembering is important - its a mistake that should never, ever be forgotten.  10 years from now someone will need to be able to explain to the school children why Kansas City is the only team left in the majors still playing in a stadium surrounded by parking lots in the middle of nowhere. 


huh?  Ever been to Miller Park (Milwaukee), Dodger Stadium, Anaheim Stadium, Texas Rangers, Shea, U.S Cellular Field, McAfee Coliseum Oakland (I know, they might get a downtown park), Turner (Atlanta), Florida???  Stadiums surrounded by parking lots in an isolated location that you drive to with nothing around them.

Phoenix, has nothing around their park but garages.  Same with Houston and really even Seattle has little around the stadiums.  Even Cincy, with THREE stadiums has a freaking dead downtown.  Everybody goes over to KY.

Even some of the stadiums that are known for their downtown locations have little to do around the parks like Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Baltimore.

Is Yankee's stadium really in all that great of a location?

There are a few stadiums to be envious of when it comes to interacting with an urban area.  Coors, Petco, At&T, Fenway, Wrigley...  The rest are either just as far from downtown as Kauffman or are an island surrounded by parking lots and garages and mabey 1 or 2 bars that are dead when a game is not going on.  They just have a better view of the skyline.

I'm only saying this because it's not fair to act like we have the worst location in baseball.  It's just not true.  A lot of cities have parks just like ours.  Kauffman Stadium is closer to Downtown than it is to most of the Eastern Jackson County burbs.  When I drive into work, by the time I hit the TSC, I'm almost Downtown.

Just saying.


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