Why a Downtown Stadium Didn't Get Off The Ground

[KC0KEK]

I thought that the main reason why Glass got it is because he was Ewing's first choice. Was that not the case?

[KCMax]

Glass was to be a trust-holder until an owner was found. I don't know if Ewing wanted Glass or even contemplated Glass would want to be owner. Its kind of like Bush appointing Cheney to look for a Vice Presidential candidate and Cheney coming to the conclusion that he would be the best candidate.

[Maitre D]

I thought that the main reason why Glass got it is because he was Ewing's first choice. Was that not the case?

Now, you don't really fall for those stories that Glass & al leak to the press, do you?

GlassHole himself said at one point, he was dropping out of the bidding (the time MIles Prentice won the team, but was denied later by MLB).  Suddenly, wow!  Guess what?  GlassHole is back in!

And this time, he buys it a year later!    Golly gee, what a turn of events.

[kcdcchef]

I thought that the main reason why Glass got it is because he was Ewing's first choice. Was that not the case?

ewing kauffman hand picked david glass as the ceo to run the team while kauffman was still alive.

trust me, mr. k wanted glass to run the team after he died. kauffman spoke at length in interviews about the economics of baseball the years leading to his death, he was the writing on the wall.

[KCMax]

Of course he wanted Glass to run the team, but did he want him to own the team? If so, why didn't Glass just agree to buy the team from Kauffman upon his death?

[Maitre D]

trust me, mr. k wanted glass to run the team after he died.

Why should we "trust" you?

[barkerr]

Well, they had it narrowed down to 5 downtown locations; their cost was as good as what the Royals came up with.  The Royals are still trying to figure out how to spend all that money.  There was also a proposed way to pay for it.  There needed to be more debate and discussion from everyone involved.

As one who really and truly wanted (and still wants) a downtown ballpark, and to make myself sick pining over What Could Have Been...Does anyone have the five downtown locations they were proposing/considering? I ask because I had/have my own list, and some of the sites I picked tended towards the east side, where there was access to 71/29 and 70.

[DaveKCMO]

i only remember two: north loop and near washington square park. seems like a 3rd one was on oak south of truman, but i don't recall the specifics. i always thought the north loop location was ideal since it's already surface lots anyway and has great highway access.

[bobbyhawks]

The Sasaki plan had four proposed locations. 

1.  North Loop, just West of Main
2.  PAC location
3.  Just East of the current PAC location (between Main and Wyandotte, South of Truman)
4.  Oak St. and 19th

Two of these are no longer possible (if anything really is now).  The North loop location wouldn't get any (or much) of the skyline in the background as all stadiums must face North-Northeast.  The Oak St. location would only allow downtown views to about 30% of the crowd, depending on its ultimate orientation/design.  Looking back, had we had the foresight, the current IRS location would have been perfect as you would have views of both the downtown skyline and Liberty Memorial. 

My ideal location would be to take a chunk of Penn Valley Park (north Penn Dr. between Broadway and SW Trafficway) and build the stadium there.  It would be walkable from any Union Station light/commuter rail/transportation hub that may be built (if it is ever a true hub again), have views of both Liberty Memorial, Union Station, and Downtown, be extremely close to Boulevard Brewery, and easy to build parking around (if you fill in around the railroad with garages and share with Union Station).  It would also be really cool to hear the trains go by during the games... activities in the park before and after the games, restaurants in Union Station with lots of business, and spurred development with great proximity to SW BLVD and Mexican restaurants.

[eliphar17]

Two of these are no longer possible (if anything really is now).  The North loop location wouldn't get any (or much) of the skyline in the background as all stadiums must face North-Northeast. 

I was a big fan of the North Loop location because of the incredible integration with the urban fabric (and huge potential for the River Market and Garment District to both become hotspots). The best orientation at that site is southeast, and stadiums are not actually required to face northeast. Six of the stadiums built since 1990 had an orientation south of east.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Two of these are no longer possible (if anything really is now). 

And that is why I have said in the past if there is to be a downtown stadium when the current lease expires then work needs to start now.  Not that everything has to be done and a signed contract in place but one starts with a dream.  And to get that dream to become a reality one has to plan.  And one way to start that plan is to identify a location to place the dream.

[Maitre D]

And that is why I have said in the past if there is to be a downtown stadium when the current lease expires then work needs to start now.  Not that everything has to be done and a signed contract in place but one starts with a dream.  And to get that dream to become a reality one has to plan.  And one way to start that plan is to identify a location to place the dream.

David Glass & Family didn't want any plan that required them to put in their own money.  Nothing more needs to be said about the DT ballpark after you realize this major fact.

[bahua]

David Glass & Family didn't want any plan that required them to put in their own money.  Nothing more needs to be said about the DT ballpark after you realize this major fact.

I think this could be said for any MLB team owner. Why spend your money when you can extort public money from frightened fans? No risk: that's how the league works.

The responsibility to build a new ballpark would fall entirely on the taxpayers, just as it did with the improvements. Expecting anything from the owners is laughably optimistic.

[Maitre D]

I think this could be said for any MLB team owner. Why spend your money when you can extort public money from frightened fans? No risk: that's how the league works.

The responsibility to build a new ballpark would fall entirely on the taxpayers, just as it did with the improvements. Expecting anything from the owners is laughably optimistic.

Well......St Louis (who has a FAR greater baseball history & passion than do we) told their owners to go pound sand for years.    Suddenly, ownership found a way to fund 75% of their new ballpark.


So it can be done Bahua!  But you need citizens with spine.  Glass found the perfect town for his needs.

[GRID]

KC is not St Louis.  There is zero comparison.  We don't have the crazy fan base (StL is per capita the best baseball city in the country), we don't have the deep pocket owners and if we did, why would we ask them to build a stadium for a team that they will never see a return on that investment?  I don't even think Glass can legally profit from the Royals and what profit he can make is very limited.  We have a stadium that a lot of people like, we did not have to replace a crappy downtown stadium.

So, bottom line is the owners were not going to pay for it.  The vast majority of Jackson County residents were not going to pay for it.  So, it wasn't going to happen.

Now, I agree, KC missed the boat on not building a downtown stadium.  But a new stadium was not going to happen and even if it did, would KC be able to build the sprint center P&L district etc too?  Light Rail?  Sewers?

It just wasn't going to happen.  If that tax failed, KC would be no closer to a downtown park today then we were back then and I honestly don't think the team would have survived here.

I wanted a downtown stadium so bad, but reality was, it was not even a pipe dream.

[bobbyhawks]

David Glass would have jumped all over investing $100 million into a downtown stadium if he wasn't worried about losing parking revenue, because I think he could make the investment back in 3-5 years (his investment in the Royals has been ridiculously lucrative).  We are complete suckers for spending almost new stadium money on renovations (I love the K but hate the location).  For no investment, he nets at least $8 million or so a year in parking, even with our pathetic 18k a game average attendance, and this income is neverending.  I totally disagree with this, because I think the corporate relationships/business crowd/central location would more than account for a considerable increase in attendance over time and not just for a couple of years.  My guess would be that they could bring in 2k to 3k more people on average compared to the same players/record/year at the K, and that is after a windfall of 10k extra for a year or two. 

Also, get back to me when St. Louis has been a joke of a team for 15+ straight years, and then let me know how great Cardinals fans are.  I think KC fans are great considering the ringer we have been through.  We definitely can't compete in history, but prior to and including the strike in 1994, the Royals drew over 23k a game for 16 of 17 straight years.  If you look at '69 to '81, STL couldn't draw more than 23k average (only drew more than 21k once), and they had four winning seasons to our one from '94 to '07.  So, a bigger, yet comparable city drew an average of right at 19k a year for a 13 year dry spell, while the Royals, post strike, have drawn an average of right at 18.6k a year for the last 13 years.  For comparison's sake, the Royals drew an average of 18.3k from '69 to '71 which includes four years of sub 12k attendance at Municipal Stadium (22k if you take those years out).  I'm not trying to say that STL fans aren't as good, because I think STL definitely has better fans now and over time, but it is a good way of seeing how KC fans aren't as bad as some claim they are.  As with 2003, a mediocre season will bring out significantly more fans.

By the way, Glass can and does legally profit from the Royals.  His investment has at least tripled since he initially bought in, which is more than I can say for the bottom half of our lineup recently.  Also, we paid $240-250 million for K renovations.  The new Busch cost $346 million.

[KCPowercat]

a new downtown park would have cost 600M easily.  Glass publically said he had no interest in a stadium downtown.  that ended the downtown park discussions.

[bobbyhawks]

...but he didn't say it was because of his lack of interest but rather that a majority of citizens didn't want a downtown stadium, so he would go with them.

[KCPowercat]

the reason he gave is irrelevant to me...his money wasn't behind it...that killed it.

[Maitre D]

a new downtown park would have cost 600M easily. 

Nope.

Glass publically said he had no interest in a stadium downtown.  that ended the downtown park discussions.

Yep.