GO ROYALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[KCPowercat]

last year is a pretty high standard to hold him to, ya think?

and with bentencourt behind him...might as well have nobody in the hole.

[MidtownCat]

last year is a pretty high standard to hold him to, ya think?

and with bentencourt behind him...might as well have nobody in the hole.

Yes, a Cy Young year is a high standard.  He is the ace of our staff.

I haven't said if he doesn't repeat his 09' performance, he's a failure.  But to deny the reality that he's struggled so far, is stupid.  I said he's been very average this year, which he has been.  He's off to slow start and I have no problem whatsoever stating that he has not pitched all that well to this point.  He doesn't have the same level of command and the lackluster run support only attributes to so much of the 1-5 start.

Velocity, strike outs are down.  OPS and HR allowed are all up considerably.  The losses reflect that.

Now, if your measuring stick is for the ace of your franchise to simply be one of the top 20 or 30 pitchers in baseball, then we're in great shape.  That's not the standard by which I believe he should be measured.

I know it's a tough pill to swallow for some folks.

[WSPanic]

I know it's a tough pill to swallow for some folks.

LOL. 60 IP and and 2.72 ERA - with 50:11 K:BB ratio - expanded over a year are still Cy Young quality - best-in-league numbers.

If your standard is Bob Gibson in '68 - then yes, Zack has had a disappointing year. If you use any other reasonable standars, he still had a tremendous season going until yesterday.

[KCMax]

Now, if your measuring stick is for the ace of your franchise to simply be one of the top 20 or 30 pitchers in baseball, then we're in great shape.  That's not the standard by which I believe he should be measured.

There are 30 teams in baseball. Shouldn't an "ace" by definition be one of the top 20 or 30 pitchers in baseball?

[LenexatoKCMO]

"Ace" seems to be a pretty ill-defined term in baseball.  How many people just read that to mean the number one starter in any given team's rotation? 

[WSPanic]

"Ace" seems to be a pretty ill-defined term in baseball.  How many people just read that to mean the number one starter in any given team's rotation? 

To your point, I think the phrase "#1 Starter" means different things to different people. While I agree - every team technically has one - the term is used in a different way. "He has the stuff to be a #1" technically means someone has the stuff to be Darrell May circa 2003, but I think most people view #1's as a select group of top pitchers - regardless of team and position in rotation.

[LenexatoKCMO]

To your point, I think the phrase "#1 Starter" means different things to different people. While I agree - every team technically has one - the term is used in a different way. "He has the stuff to be a #1" technically means someone has the stuff to be Darrell May circa 2003, but I think most people view #1's as a select group of top pitchers - regardless of team and position in rotation.

Touche.  In contrast you could look back at the point when the Royals had both Cone and Appier in their semi-primes and probably argue that the team had two "aces".  You felt good about either one of them going toe-to-toe with the league best. 

[dublin]

  You felt good about either one of them going toe-to-toe with the league best. 

And that's probably the definition of an "ace".

[kcmetro]

[KCMax]

I remember when we first signed Cone, everyone thought he was a huge bust because his first season he "only" won 11 games.....despite a 3.33 ERA, tenth in the league.

[MidtownCat]

Keitzman, with a spot on monologue regarding Zack, imo.

Basically spelling out that this season is essentially a carbon copy of 2008 Grienke.

Losing 2 out of 3 starts and giving up a home run every 7 innings (which is actually worse than 2008). 

[KCPowercat]

doesn't your 'take' matching KK's give you reason to pause and reconsider?  I mean you obviously know he is the kctv of sports talk, saying most things for the sole purpose of stirring up listeners, not  valid sports info.

[LenexatoKCMO]

I really don't think there is anything wrong with Zach.  He has had a couple of outings where he clearly didn't have his good stuff - like yesterday.  But otherwise his only undoing has been run support. 

[MidtownCat]

doesn't your 'take' matching KK's give you reason to pause and reconsider?  I mean you obviously know he is the kctv of sports talk, saying most things for the sole purpose of stirring up listeners, not  valid sports info.

Kietzman's the best in the biz.  Dude's never wrong.

[KCMax]

Keitzman, with a spot on monologue regarding Zack, imo.

Basically spelling out that this season is essentially a carbon copy of 2008 Grienke.

Losing 2 out of 3 starts and giving up a home run every 7 innings (which is actually worse than 2008). 

People need to get over win/loss record being indicative of a pitcher's performance.

Zack is probably not as good as he was in 2009, but he's still one of the top 20 pitchers in baseball.

[kcmetro]

Kietzman's the best in the biz.  Dude's never wrong.

He's an idiot.  And he's annoying to boot.  I only listen to him sometimes just because of the outrageous stuff he'll say...and sometimes he gets good interviews like he did with Beebe a couple weeks ago.  But otherwise, he's wrong quite a bit.

[WSPanic]

Kietzman's the best in the biz.  Dude's never wrong.

Hi Mrs Keitzman - welcome to KCRag.

How's Patterson preparing the Wildcats this year? And has anyone busted Markief Morris for wrecking that car Scot Pollard illegally gave him? And how was the season the Chiefs had to play 16 away games because of the strike at Truman Sports Complex? How's Big 10 expansion working out for Mizzou?

[MidtownCat]

People need to get over win/loss record being indicative of a pitcher's performance.

Zack is probably not as good as he was in 2009, but he's still one of the top 20 pitchers in baseball.

Being as good as he was in 2009 isn't even debatable.

The question is, was that season just a complete and utter fluke and this season a better indicator of his true ability since it more accurately reflects most of what he has displayed during his tenure with the Royals?

Who is the real Zack Greinke?  An average to above average major leaguer (2008 and ever other season) or one of the most dominant pitchers in the game (2009).

[MidtownCat]

Hi Mrs Keitzman - welcome to KCRag.

How's Patterson preparing the Wildcats this year? And has anyone busted Markief Morris for wrecking that car Scot Pollard illegally gave him? And how was the season the Chiefs had to play 16 away games because of the strike at Truman Sports Complex? How's Big 10 expansion working out for Mizzou?

It was a joke.  Easy, MacGruber.

[WSPanic]

It was a joke.  Easy, MacGruber.

I'll just assume your analysis of Greinke was a joke too.