TIME TO FREAK OUT AGAIN ABOUT CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT! THE BIG 12 IS DEAD! MAYBE!

[LenexatoKCMO]

I can't understand why any big 12 north team feels any loyality or desire to stay in this conference.

KU and NU have faired pretty well financially from the arraingement and I don't know that any of the North teams have as much luck recruiting out of TX without the south matchups.  But yes, the league politics and texas-based media support have been ridiculous.  

[LenexatoKCMO]

The Big 10 currently has no championship game in football.  Say what you want about that, but at least Mizzou has had a shot to put themselves into a BCS game with one victory, whereas equal records in the Big 10 will always go to Mich, OSU, or Penn St.  

That's the whole instigation behind this discussion - they are supposedly getting serious about a championship. 

[shaffe]

I don't see how this would help Mizzou in any way.  They would still be behind OSU, Penn St. and Michigan in the old boys club for football (which is a worse old boys club, media wise, than that of UT, OU, and Nebraska).  In basketball, they would always be step-child to Indiana and Michigan State, with Ohio State and Michigan to contend with as far as history goes.  KC exposure for Mizzou would taper off dramatically if they weren't in the Big XII, seeing as how they would be overwhelmingly outnumbered by Big XII fans in the metro area.

Those are all very valid negatives for Missouri, but there are also several positives associated with such a (potential) move.  Money, academic boost, and a more equal footing within the conference would certainly see an uptick.

The Big 10 currently has no championship game in football.  Say what you want about that, but at least Mizzou has had a shot to put themselves into a BCS game with one victory, whereas equal records in the Big 10 will always go to Mich, OSU, or Penn St.  Texas recruiting would suffer as players would get little exposure back home.  Not to mention a loss of meaning to many 100+ year old rivalries in all sports.

Adding a 12th institution would give the Big 10 a chance to make even more money through a championship game in football.  I believe that is one of the main reasons why they are closer to actually adding a 12th team now than ever before.  Losing Texas recruiting would be very very bad, but hopefully the exposure in Pennsylvania and Ohio could help to make up for it after a few years of working.

[KCPowercat]

KU and NU have faired pretty well financially from the arraingement

based on?  Why these 2 moreso than others?

[bobbyhawks]

Adding a 12th institution would give the Big 10 a chance to make even more money through a championship game in football.

Sure it would, but it wouldn't necessarily make MU more likely to win it.  Hate to see MU leave, then have a playoff system come to fruition a few years from now that makes that game a little less relevant. And imagine the egg in their face if they left the Big XII, then made room for Mo State to come in and command some better recruits.  If money is the main concern, then good luck, but it sounds like their issues with the Big XII all stem from lack of respect, and I'm not sure the Big 10 is really going to make that much of a difference.

[LenexatoKCMO]

based on?  Why these 2 moreso than others?

Because they are making revenue around the top four of the league - while most of the rest of the north languishes around almost half as much.  

While I am sick of the terribly slanted media coverage, the league office that is 100% TX folks, the south-biased football officials, etc. - greater revenue sharing probably means a significant chunk of money out of KU and especially NU's pockets.  KU and NU are in a bit of a mixed position - the league organizational bias and structure are problems, but siding with the schools that want to be subsidized isn't in our interest at all. 

[kcmetro]

based on?  Why these 2 moreso than others?

They're the only two north teams that win consistently (or have huge fan $upport) for at least one sport.  NU with football and KU with basketball.  The amount of money NU rakes in for football is probably pretty damn huge.  The amount KU rakes in for bball is probably near the top in the nation.

[KCPowercat]

sources for any of this fodder?

[LenexatoKCMO]

sources for any of this fodder?

I already sourced it for you the last time we had this discussion - the most recent published data at the time had NU third in total revenue and KU fourth.  

Edit - here is updated data for 2008: http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports ... l-you.html

Ku is up to third in the league (11th in the country) NU sliped to fifth in the league.  The next North team (Colorado) is $23 million off NU's pace and it gets sadder from there on down. 

[KCPowercat]

I do remember KU had grown it's budget quite a bit in the past 5 years (KU and KSU revenues used to be a dead heat) but I don't see how it's the "big 12" that's helped them at all in that growth....which is why I asked why you decided only KU and NU have benefited.

edited out old bunk data I found.

[LenexatoKCMO]

KCP - that's got to be some really old data, the numbers are way way low.  Click the link in my post above. 

[KCPowercat]

cool..thanks.  Crazy OSU is so high.  My point from above still remains....KU's revenue growth is recent, not something I would tie into the "Big 12". 

This conference could rot as far as I'm concerned.

[KCPowercat]

Here is a good one that's searchable by school

http://b2.caspio.com/dp.asp?AppKey=900c ... 844ba59778

Interesting stuff between KU and KSU last year....(sorry to hijack thread here for a second) in the revenue department.

KSU (KU )

Money from ticket sales: $14,158,650 (17M)
Money athletics gets from student fees: $573,508 (2M) - wow, bend over KU student body
Money from playing in away games: $1,108,460 (135k) - ISU/KSU game???
Contributions and donations to athletics: $13,029,212 (37m) - pretty obvious where KSU needs to make up some ground, here is your Lew money
Money or benefits from a third party including speaker fees, shoe contracts, country club memberships, etc: $0 (0)
Money the university uses to subsidize the athletic department: $0 (2) - strange
Money from the NCAA and conferences: $9,641,387 (11) - Interesting why this is different?
Money from TV, radio and Internet rights: $2,719,000 (7) ...KU's local bball broadcasting deal?
Money from licensed products, advertisements and sponsorships: $572,029 (3) - Obvious jump from national championship and Orange bowl here.

[shinatoo]

added *MU*
Money from ticket sales: $14,158,650 (17M) *19
Money athletics gets from student fees: $573,508 (2M) *0- wow, bend over KU student body * and K State student body
Money from playing in away games: $1,108,460 (135k) *323K- ISU/KSU game???
Contributions and donations to athletics: $13,029,212 (37m) *13- pretty obvious where KSU needs to make up some ground, here is your Lew money Smile
Money or benefits from a third party including speaker fees, shoe contracts, country club memberships, etc: $0 (0) *0
Money the university uses to subsidize the athletic department: $0 (2) *2.6 - strange
Money from the NCAA and conferences: $9,641,387 (11) *8.8 now i see why MU is pissed
Money from TV, radio and Internet rights: $2,719,000 (7) *3.3mil...KU's local bball broadcasting deal?
Money from licensed products, advertisements and sponsorships: $572,029 (3) *870k- Obvious jump from national championship and Orange bowl here.

Most glaring are no Student fees for MU. Did KU just get done doing some major building project last year. If you looked at the year Mu did the new arena the number was probably much higher.

[Highlander]

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[aknowledgeableperson]

At the time when the Big 8 became the Big 12 other conferences were also in some sort of state of flux because of TV money and so on.  Not sure of when the current TV contracts expire but it just might be time for some of the conferences to do another shake-up.

It looks like the speculation is on MU but what about NEB going to the Big 10?  The Big 12 breakup with the South schools staying together and merging with some other southern universities and the north schools breakingup completely.  Colorado going to a western conference, Neb to the Big 10, and the other four schools going together or individually to other conferences.

[MoMan]

I'm not sure Mizzou leaving would be beneficial to the Big 10.  Their academics aren't up to par with those schools, and they don't bring in a huge TV market.  I've heard Rutgers makes the most economic sense because of the NYC market.

I also would hate to see MU leave the Big 12.  It would give even more power to the South, depending on if the conf. brought in a new school to take MU's place.  KC would also lose a lot of ground in keeping the bball tourney here.

The Big 10 is an academically prestigious conference, and Mizzou doesn't rise to the standards of most Big 10 schools. But it's definitely an academic peer of a handful of schools in that conference, and with the exception of Colorado, Mizzou is the best academic fit for the Big 10 of any Big XII north school. It's certainly no less impressive than some of the schools widely mentioned as potential Big 10 candidates (Cincinnati, Nebraska, Louisville). Joining the Big 10 could bring MU a lot more money for research and athletics than what its ties to the Big XII currently do.  And the Big 10's generous profit sharing, television contract, and bowl tie-ins would make being a stepchild to the conference's three powerhouses less unpleasant than being Texas' bitch in the Big XII.

With regards to Rutgers: the NYC market probably has more passionate alums/fans of Penn State, Michigan, and Ohio State athletics than it does Rutgers fans.  Apart from Notre Dame, there is no school currently under consideration for admission that would "deliver" a huge share of the NYC market.  And  extending the Big 10 even further away from its Midwestern roots with the addition of a New Jersey school risks seriously diluting the conference's brand.

Any school in the Big XII's north division should be excited to be mentioned as a possible candidate for admission to the Big 10.  MU is the only school in the division whose athletics, academics, facilities, state population, and geography all qualify it for such consideration.  The university should absolutely jump at the chance to switch conferences if the opportunity presents itself.

[shaffe]

At the time when the Big 8 became the Big 12 other conferences were also in some sort of state of flux because of TV money and so on.  Not sure of when the current TV contracts expire but it just might be time for some of the conferences to do another shake-up.

It looks like the speculation is on MU but what about NEB going to the Big 10?  The Big 12 breakup with the South schools staying together and merging with some other southern universities and the north schools breakingup completely.  Colorado going to a western conference, Neb to the Big 10, and the other four schools going together or individually to other conferences.

Nebraska would fit well from an athletic standpoint, but I'm not sure it would bring enough TV sets into the picture.  They also aren't any better off academically than any of the other prospective midwestern schools.

Honestly if/when the Big 10 expands I expect it to be a school to the east.  Rutgers is the name that is mentioned the most, but I'm not sure if that will bring in enough of a draw, either.

[bbqboy]

The Big 10 is an academically prestigious conference, and Mizzou doesn't rise to the standards of most Big 10 schools. But it's definitely an academic peer of a handful of schools in that conference, and with the exception of Colorado, Mizzou is the best academic fit for the Big 10 of any Big XII north school. It's certainly no less impressive than some of the schools widely mentioned as potential Big 10 candidates (Cincinnati, Nebraska, Louisville). Joining the Big 10 could bring MU a lot more money for research and athletics than what its ties to the Big XII currently do.  And the Big 10's generous profit sharing, television contract, and bowl tie-ins would make being a stepchild to the conference's three powerhouses less unpleasant than being Texas' bitch in the Big XII.

With regards to Rutgers: the NYC market probably has more passionate alums/fans of Penn State, Michigan, and Ohio State athletics than it does Rutgers fans.  Apart from Notre Dame, there is no school currently under consideration for admission that would "deliver" a huge share of the NYC market.  And  extending the Big 10 even further away from its Midwestern roots with the addition of a New Jersey school risks seriously diluting the conference's brand.

Any school in the Big XII's north division should be excited to be mentioned as a possible candidate for admission to the Big 10.  MU is the only school in the division whose athletics, academics, facilities, state population, and geography all qualify it for such consideration.  The university should absolutely jump at the chance to switch conferences if the opportunity presents itself.

how long did it take you to make that up?

[Highlander]

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