KCRag Forum

Los Angeles  is proof that density does not make urbanity.  LA has more people per square mile than New York City (entire city not just manhattan) with houses and apartment blocks crammed in very dense.  However except in a few areas, there is not much in pedestrian activity.  Los Angeles Live is under construction next to the Staples Center arena and the convention center.  Condo conversion  is brisk with even some '80s office bldgs being converted.  Like KC the downtown office market is in the doldrums with many of the 700 footers only 25% occupied.  It is almost impossible to find anything in a condo or fixer upper house over 1000 sq feet for less than 400,000.

^yeh, they have auto oriented density.  The key is to have pedestrian friendly, walkable density with lots of mass transit.

How interesting...autocentric density. I might have to visit LA so I can see it firsthand.

I have to wonder if it's the same thing I saw in Puerto Rico, a relatively dense agglomeration but designed out of centering everything around the car.

One thing comes to mind: if the streets are on an interconnected gridiron pattern, then you could argue that you have a more genuine urban form, instead of having disconnected, dendritic, spaghetti-noodle street patterns.

The first time I saw the San Fernando Valley I was amazed at the density.  What is supposed to be the capital of sprawl, the Valley is actually quite compact.  While it's mostly single family houses, those houses are very small and sit on tiny lots.  There are also lots of narrow apartment buildings that stretch back away from the street.  Plus, there are some high rise business districts like Warner Center that rival KC's central business district.

dangerboy wrote: The first time I saw the San Fernando Valley I was amazed at the density.  What is supposed to be the capital of sprawl, the Valley is actually quite compact.  While it's mostly single family houses, those houses are very small and sit on tiny lots.  There are also lots of narrow apartment buildings that stretch back away from the street.  Plus, there are some high rise business districts like Warner Center that rival KC's central business district.

Density in terms of single family housing is actually quite a bit more common in LA than it is here in the metro.  You'll rarely see a huge yard anywhere in southern California.  The cost of land in LA makes it completely unaffordable for the average family. 

I lived in Los Angeles for 2 1/2 years and I don't miss it one bit.  I hated it and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.  It's a hell hole regardless of it's high density.

Thrillcekr wrote: Density in terms of single family housing is actually quite a bit more common in LA than it is here in the metro.  You'll rarely see a huge yard anywhere in southern California.  The cost of land in LA makes it completely unaffordable for the average family. 

I lived in Los Angeles for 2 1/2 years and I don't miss it one bit.  I hated it and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.  It's a hell hole regardless of it's high density.

I have a close relative in real estate in KC who does a lot of work with incoming Californians.  She tells me that the one thing that they really go after when buying a house here are really large lawns because they did not have much space in California.  They also are pleasantly surprised by how much home they can get for their money in KC. 

I would say that there are def. certain areas in LA that are very walkable.  Take for instance Wilshire and Olympic in the heart of Koreatown.  The buses are always jam packed with people, and the hispanic community there takes full advantage of all the mass transit that is available. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that LA is as ped. friendly as NYC, but there are areas where mass transit is a very viable option.  I'm also a a strong believer that the weather/climate makes walking in LA much more doable than let's say Chicago during the wintertime.

Has anyone even been out off the 210 in extreme inland empire?  I mean I remember visiting cities like Fontana and Rancho Cucamonga a few years back and they were just desert wastelands.  Now, they're as dense and filled out as anywhere I've ever been.  Riverside, Corona is the same as well. 

Highlander wrote: I have a close relative in real estate in KC who does a lot of work with incoming Californians.  She tells me that the one thing that they really go after when buying a house here are really large lawns because they did not have much space in California.  They also are pleasantly surprised by how much home they can get for their money in KC.   

Yep, I paid as much to rent a 2 bedroom apartment in San Diego in 1994 as I would pay monthly for a brand new (low end) house here today.  The San Diego market is on the lower end price wise compared to the other major metropolitan areas of California. 

As for yard size, even the smaller yards in the urbanized areas here look like city parks compared to what the average California home owner has.

Thrillcekr wrote: Yep, I paid as much to rent a 2 bedroom apartment in San Diego in 1994 as I would pay monthly for a brand new (low end) house here today.  The San Diego market is on the lower end price wise compared to the other major metropolitan areas of California. 

As for yard size, even the smaller yards in the urbanized areas here look like city parks compared to what the average California home owner has.

Def would have to agree. My sis lives in Los Angeles and pays over a $1,000 for a two bedroom luxury apt. 

A couple points:

Los Angeles' is not nearly as dense as New York City.  Los Angeles isn't even the densest city in CALIFORNIA.  The buildings alone should tell you that.  NYC has 27,228 people per square mile, while Los Angeles has 7,876.  Check Wikipedia.  San Francisco comes in at 16,634.  Most of Los Angeles is "Semi-Urban" a lot like a denser Midtown KC, where I used to live.

While rent is cheaper in Los Angeles than K.C., $1,000 for a two-bedroom "luxury" apartment is not bad. You'd pay $1,200+ for a ONE bedroom "Luxury Apartment" in downtown Kansas City.  Check Union Hill, San Francisco Tower, Western Auto or 21-Ten's rented condos.  Now, square footage is another question.  A luxury condo at Union Hill rented as an apartment is about $1.25 per square foot.

That said, I pay $1,200 for a "not too crappy" 2-bedroom apartment in the San Fernando Valley.

On the other hand, I used to make promos for Channel 62, and the same job at the Warner Brothers network pays over 3x more.  So, it works out nice.

Now, Los Angeles is finally starting to build "Mixed Use" buildings...you know, pizza shops and dry cleaners on the bottom floors with apartments above.  THAT is how you make smart density.

The "Inland Empire", off the 10 and 210 freeways is one of the most depressing strings of super-dense AMC theatres and Outback Steakhouses I've ever seen.  When I first saw it I was overwhelmed by this generic landscape that repeats like a cartoon background.  Once you get to the city, it's not so bad.

FreeNachos wrote: That said, I pay $1,200 for a "not too crappy" 2-bedroom apartment in the San Fernando Valley.

while i pay $375 for a "fine" apartment in midtown kansas city... 

The city of LA is really not as bad as is often represented here- there are a lor of intersting areas.  As for suburban density, Phoenix is a lot the same way- and not because of land values.  There is probably no change in density from the 101 to the edge of downtown.  All of the houses are relatively small, on pretty small lots, but when the ywere built, land values were not much different from KC.

skim82 wrote: The buses are always jam packed with people, and the hispanic community there takes full advantage of all the mass transit that is available. 

LA really is two different worlds.  The hispanic population lives the dense urban lifestyle.  They live in crowded apartments, they ride mass transit, and a number of them actually go downtown to Broadway to shop for clothes, household electronics, etc.

Eli Broad, chairman of Sun America and arguably LA's most influential person, actually stated that downtown was dead and had no street life (precisely what we say about KC).  Yet most Anglos never go to Broadway, Spring St., or Los Angeles St. where the sidewalks are heavily crowded and there are millions of shops and restaurants catering to the masses.  The 'cool' white people actually enjoy going down to the nearby Fashion District and mingling with the multi-ethnic 'mobs' that frequent the place.

I think the problem stems from the perception that most Anglos want to live in an antiseptically perfect world (read: Leawood Town Center) and hispanics just enjoy going out on the town with the masses.  I always wish that there could be a happy medium between the two - but for now I'll just keep on dreamin.

This thread hasn't been updated in awhile.

There is a lot going on in downtown LA, with an estimated 50,000 people living in its' downtown now. The City is pursuing a plan to restore the Broadway theatre district, run a new streetcar line through the area, and several of the downtown theaters have already been renovated or repurposed. What I didn't know is that Downtown LA has the largest number of intact historic theaters remaining in its' downtown along Broadway--numbering 12.

Broadway in downtown LA is like a time capsule in many ways, and it's amazing how little demolition there has been, since much of the historic street-wall remains. The buildings feature beautiful ornamental architecture that is more reminiscent of New York and Chicago than Los Angeles.

The Broadway Theatre District in Los Angeles features the largest concentration of historic theatres and movie palaces on one street in the nation, most of which date back to the 1920's and 1930's. There are twelve historic theatres along Broadway in Downtown Los Angeles. Each offers a different and important glimpse into the history of our city, and its primary industry - entertainment.

They include:

Million Dollar Theatre (live performance space)
Roxie Theatre (used for retail now)
Cameo Theatre (used for retail now)
Arcade Theatre (used as clothing store now)
Los Angeles Theatre (rented out by movie studios for film shoots, and used by Last Remaining Seats classic films fundraising group to screen films)
Palace Theatre (reopened in 2011 as live performance venue)
State Theatre (currently used as church)
Globe Theatre (used for retail, and nightclub space)
Tower Theatre (It was announced in October 2012, that it will reopen in 2014 as a concert venue and bar.)
Rialto Theatre (renovated as Urban Outfitters; historic façade maintained)
Orpheum Theatre (performing arts, restored in 2003)
United Artists Theatre (renovated as events venue as part of the Ace Hotel project; will reopen in Feb., 2014 as Theatre at the Ace Hotel)

Other historic theaters remain outside of the Broadway corridor, and they include:

The Olympic Theater on W. 8th Street (used recently for retail, vacant)
The Mayan Theater, 1038 S. Hill St., (used as nightclub)
Variety Arts Theater, 940 S. Figueroa St., (used for special events)
The Regal Theater, 448 S. Main St. (used for live music events, movies)
Trinity Auditorium, 855 S. Grand Ave. (proposed hotel conversion, and dance hall space)
Belasco Theater, 1050 S. Hill St. (used for restaurant, bar, and nightclub)
Pantages / Warner Bros. Theater, 401 W. 7th St. (currently used for retail jewelry exchange)
Merced Theater, 420 N. Main St., (proposed use by public access TV station).

Large sections of downtown LA still are lined with historic and decorative buildings that are intact and being redeveloped. Among some recent ones are Ross Dress for Less taking over a former Woolworth's store, as well as several boutique retail stores filling space downtown. Downtown also has had additions of grocery stores, and a City Target store.

The Trinity Auditorium building is proposed for a new hotel, as is the Clark Hotel building. A new Ace Hotel has opened in the United Artists Theater building.

Here are a couple of links:

http://brighamyen.com/

http://www.bringingbackbroadway.com/index.htm

http://blogdowntown.com/

The 20 Most Important Projects in Downtown in 2014

http://tinyurl.com/mzrhrkh

The Development Scene: The Latest Info on 94 Downtown Projects

http://tinyurl.com/p5bfyal

I love downtown LA. Headed there again in September.

The new Marriott Courtyard and Residence Inn at LA Live is open now.

http://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/l ... s-la-live/