trailerkid wrote:
it's an ugly, isolated location. that's all i'm saying. for millions of locals and tourists, a baseball game might be the only reason he/she comes downtown. they're probably not going to think downtown MPLS is horrible, but this property doesn't paint the city in the light it deserves. i'm not sure why you'd OK a location for a $300 M project between a hideous 1980s arena, parking garage, and a power plant.
as someone else mentioned it'd be the KC equivalent to squeezing a baseball stadium between the Star press and the At+t building...BUT you'd need to add a parking garage the size of the City Market + a massive power plant next to it. i'm not sure a surface parking lot is worse.
I get what you're saying. It just seems contrary to some of your other posts.
"People in real cities need to deal with panhandlers....ewww, a Greyhound terminal!"
I love the irony that in one thread we have TK trashing Target Field because its a whole quarter mile walk from the heart of DT Minneapolis and in another thread we have Grid telling us that its perfectly fine to have ballparks built in suburbs fifteen+ miles outside of town surrounded by absolutely nothing.
The TSC is like six miles from downtown. When I worked downtown, I would drive out and get tickets and be back in my office in like 15 minutes.
My point is that it matters not where the stadium is. Stadiums don't generate spinoff development. My other point is that the location of the stadium is a poor excuse for why KC draws such small crowds because when you look around the league, it does not matter where the stadium is.
GRID wrote:
The TSC is like six miles from downtown. When I worked downtown, I would drive out and get tickets and be back in my office in like 15 minutes.
I went for an average - several of your cited examples of shitty locations in other cities are a lot more than 15 miles from their respective DTs.
Downtown KC is better than Downtown St Louis, Downtown Detroit, Downtown Cleveland etc and they have had downtown stadiums for a long time.
Again, no impact. Actually KC may be better off without a stadium and the 15,000 more parking spaces people will demand that will come with it.
The only reason I wanted it was because I wanted the KC skyline beyond the outfield wall. It would have been great for KC. But just like the amazing stadium in Pittsburgh with their amazing view of downtown, the stadium would have done little for downtown itself other than create mass demand for parking lots. Pittsburg draws small crowds and there is nothing near the stadiums, but at least you can walk across the river into the city I guess.
All KC needs is decent express stadium bus service from the P&L District, plaza, crown center etc.
I've always enjoyed my time in downtown St. Louis and Cleveland. Particularly Cleveland. I'd put Cleveland pretty much on par with KC in some ways and way ahead in others when I was there last year. Lots of stuff going on downtown, lots of people down there, lots of stuff to do. Plus, they have three rail lines and a "real" BRT line. What's not to like? What about downtown KC is so much better? P&L? Heh.
"It is not to my good friend's heresy that I impute his honesty. On the contrary, 'tis his honesty that has brought upon him the character of heretic." -- Ben Franklin
LenexatoKCMO wrote:
I love the irony that in one thread we have TK trashing Target Field because its a whole quarter mile walk from the heart of DT Minneapolis and in another thread we have Grid telling us that its perfectly fine to have ballparks built in suburbs fifteen+ miles outside of town surrounded by absolutely nothing.
stay focused. i know it's hard for you in these discussions. i never said the baseball stadium needs to be in the heart of anything. putting a civic project as big as a baseball stadium next to a power plant, monstrous parking compound and hideous 1980s arena is bad planning.
KCMax wrote:
"People in real cities need to deal with panhandlers....ewww, a Greyhound terminal!"
Building a baseball stadium next to a large contingent of panhandlers or Greyhound bus passengers is generally a bad idea. I'm unaware how this contradicts my previous statement that KC doesn't have a panhandling problem.
tk, I just get the feeling that you're forming an opinion academically instead of experientially again. In the past, I've challenged you to actually come see the situation on the street. I've walked from the Warehouse District, past Target Field, and into downtown. It works. Baseball stadiums aren't always the best at integrating, but this helps fill a hole between two destination neighborhoods. Transit works exceptionally well to reach it. Per my friends at Populous, it took some innovation to fit into its spot, making it a dense part of the neighborhood. I don't see why a baseball stadium wouldn't be a better neighbor to an energy plant than some other type of development.
Bottom line: it works. It is a nice facility. It feels like an integrated part of downtown.
staubio wrote:
tk, I just get the feeling that you're forming an opinion academically instead of experientially again. In the past, I've challenged you to actually come see the situation on the street. I've walked from the Warehouse District, past Target Field, and into downtown. It works. Baseball stadiums aren't always the best at integrating, but this helps fill a hole between two destination neighborhoods. Transit works exceptionally well to reach it. Per my friends at Populous, it took some innovation to fit into its spot, making it a dense part of the neighborhood. I don't see why a baseball stadium wouldn't be a better neighbor to an energy plant than some other type of development.
Bottom line: it works. It is a nice facility. It feels like an integrated part of downtown.
I think TK's point is similar to the discussion about the Omaha Arena a few years ago - sure, its adjacent to downtown, but it is more detached from a continuity standpoint.
Don't look now... but the CenturyLink Arena is rapidly becoming quite attached to the rest of downtown.
A whole new area has developed linking downtown Omaha to the arena... and it continues to grow... talk of a new hotel coming as well.
