Saint Louis

[chrizow]

go to washington ave and see what's what.

[DaveKCMO]

go to washington ave and see what's what.

specifics? we won't be headed out until at least 11 on friday night, so i'd like to know where i'm going before we leave the hotel.

[kclofter]

going to STL the weekend of 7/20. need a late-nite cocktail/wine bar that's within a mile from the ballpark hilton (other than the hotel bar). any recommendations?

Try Lucas Park Grille at 1234 Washington.  They have an outdoor patio area situated between two buildings.  As to exact distance from your hotel, am not sure.  Decent food & drinks.  If you are there earlier (like in the day), their marketplace is open too.  It's on the first floor of a mixed use building (condos above).

[Tosspot]

It's on the first floor of a mixed use building (condos above).

I love it when that happens.

[DefaultAlias]

It's also amazing how when you leave the city limits of KCMO, chances are good, you will enter a "more" densely populated suburb right as you cross the line.  Such as Indep, Raytown, Lee's Summit, Grandview, Belton, Gladstone, Liberty and Johnson County (way out south).  Look at places like Indy, San Antonio etc where massive growth has occurred inside the those town's very large city limits while KCMO continued to loose people in the core and raise cows in its rural portions.  One reason for this is KCMO is now putting money into the northland for roads, sewers etc and some of that is through tifs because the city simply doesn't have the money to do it any other way.  Well, now that the ball is finally rolling, the northland is beginning to take on an economy of its own and should be able to grow much of its own infrastructure from here on out, but now we have to remember that now the northland is subsidizing the core of KCMO, something most suburban areas don't have to do 1/10 the size, so I think we might want to take care of our own issues before dissing on StL...

You're saying that KC got hit at least as hard as St. Louis, Detroit, and Cleveland? Those three cities are considered to be the shittiest big cities in the country (although they certainly are not.)

[STLguy1]

Good grief.

I usually do not respond to flamers, but here it goes respectfully...

--
I love when someone posts ignorant rants about their OWN perceptions.

St. Louis has been lauded for it's wonderful reconstruction, revitalization and comeback - nationally and internationally.  The city looks fantastic IMO.  So does Kansas City.

There is always areas of improvement, of course - this is an American City - just like any other American City!  Minneapolis has "those" neighborhoods too... but they are not the brick housing stock that STL, Detroit, CLeveland, Pittsburgh, Philly, and NYC has.  Minneapolis has more wood structure single family/single story homes that are crumbling as well. 

You must not be familiar with areas of North Minneapolis, Brooklyn Center, Brooklyn Park, areas of Portland, Chicago, and parts of Lake Street?

Point being, that all American cities have ghettos, poor areas, whatever you wish to call/refer to them as. 

Areas of North St. Louis are getting great rehabs and strong neighborhood revitalization programs.  As are many blighted areas in KC, Minneapolis, Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit - yadda yadda yadda.
But to blantantly label STL (or any other American city) by looking at a few photos of North St. Louis. 

MINNEAPOLIS:

http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbv ... avenue.jpg
http://media.npr.org/programs/atc/featu ... ome200.jpg


http://www.city-data.com/picfilesv/picv8764.php 

NPR News May 2007 - North Minneapolis Foreclosures
From the article:
"North Minneapolis is one such area: a working-class neighborhood where efforts at revitalization have been hampered by the growing number of abandoned houses and "For Sale" signs. "
"Home prices along the leafy, tree-lined streets near downtown had climbed in the last decade to as much as $180,000. Now, vacant and foreclosed houses are being offered for $60,000 or less.
The longer you're here, the more you're seeing boarded-up houses and your neighbors moving away,"
"The wave of foreclosures has not been triggered by massive layoffs. Unemployment in Minneapolis is actually lower than it was two years ago. Even on the north side, the city has been making public improvements, building pocket parks and adding a bike path. The neighborhood was making progress, but the foreclosures are a big setback."

full article:  http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=10348014
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=10348014

[Maitre D]

I'm going to Nelly-Ville myself, this weekend. 

Not sure what we'll do, outside of the obligatory Cards game and Forest Park.  Anyone been to J Bucks yet?

[rxlexi]

^^^ I haven't been to J Bucks, yet, but I've heard it isn't all that great.  You might want to check out Vin de Set, rooftop dining (nice view of downtown, reasonable food and lots of draft Schlafly) near Laffayette Square, and if you get there, do check out Bailey's Chocolate Bar, also right off the square.  Certainly one of my favorite bars in StL.  Brennan's in CWE is really cool also, I think that's been mentioned on here a few times.  I might be there also, I'll keep an eye out for the maitre D.  Have fun, report back.

[Maitre D]

^^^ I haven't been to J Bucks, yet, but I've heard it isn't all that great.  You might want to check out Vin de Set, rooftop dining (nice view of downtown, reasonable food and lots of draft Schlafly) near Laffayette Square, and if you get there, do check out Bailey's Chocolate Bar, also right off the square.  Certainly one of my favorite bars in StL. 

That place sounds sweet.  I'll suggest it to my co-pilot and see what she thinks.  We have like 3 nites of dining out so this might work out well.

Brennan's in CWE is really cool also, I think that's been mentioned on here a few times.  I might be there also, I'll keep an eye out for the maitre D.  Have fun, report back.

LOL!  The Maitre D will be at your service.  May I suggest the flamebait?   

[DaveKCMO]

i also recommend Marisol, on delmar right near the delmar metrolink stop. very tasty nuevo latino food and cocktails. puts azul to shame.

[st steven]

The Vin de Set and Chocolate Bar combo is a good suggestion. You are mandated to get the chocolate martini at the Chocolate Bar. Enjoy.

[KCPowercat]

What do you do in Forest Park every time MD?

We always go to Rigazzi's....nowhere close to the best italian food but I just love that place.  Also love Lucas Park Grille on Washington Ave. and Charlie Gittos downtown.  Schlafly tap room was an alright place as well.

[Maitre D]

What do you do in Forest Park every time MD?

Art gallery & zoo.  And I dont' really do it very often, just have in the past.

We always go to Rigazzi's....nowhere close to the best italian food but I just love that place.  Also love Lucas Park Grille on Washington Ave. and Charlie Gittos downtown.  Schlafly tap room was an alright place as well.

Is Rigazzi's the small place DT?  Looks like a hole-in-the-wall....with a really long shape to it when you walk in?

[JivecitySTL]

Rigazzi's is an Americanized Italian joint on the Hill that is popular with the sports crowd.  There are SO MANY better, much more authentic places to choose from. 

[KCPowercat]

I just go there for the beer....in no way am I trying to sell it as great Italian.  It's more of a group place that's just fun....not nice at all...although I really like their Italian Beef sandwich for some reason. 

Gittos is downtown...probably what you are thinking of.

Is the SLAM any good?  Hadn't really heard much about it so never been.  How does it compare to the Nelson?

Wish tangerine was still open on Wash Ave...loved that place.  As St. Louis residents will tell you, avoid lacede's....it was really dead last I was there.

[STLguy1]

Laclede's isn't that bad - just TOURISTY people - the Big Bang (dueling peianos bar) is a blast on the Landing.  The new Lumiere Place is huge on the landing and will open this fall - it will rock that area to new life.

Charlie Gitto's is the place to be for authentic STL Italian food downtown off the Hill.

[chrizow]

Charlie Gitto's is the place to be for authentic STL Italian food downtown off the Hill.

if this is true, i'm writing off STL italian food... 

[Maitre D]

I just go there for the beer....in no way am I trying to sell it as great Italian.  It's more of a group place that's just fun....not nice at all...although I really like their Italian Beef sandwich for some reason. 

Gittos is downtown...probably what you are thinking of.

We'll be staying in Clayton this time, but I'm not familiar with that area very much.

Is the SLAM any good?  Hadn't really heard much about it so never been.  How does it compare to the Nelson?

Carbon copies.  I've only been in 7-10 galleries in my life, but it compares the best to the Nelson.

Wish tangerine was still open on Wash Ave...loved that place.  As St. Louis residents will tell you, avoid lacede's....it was really dead last I was there.

I really don't like it either.  Lame as lame gets.  After the Chiefs game there, it cleared out by the afternoon game's halftime show.

[KCPowercat]

There is a good burger place called The Fatted Calf in Clayton...about all I know about that area for food.

[JivecitySTL]

Charlie Gitto's is the place to be for authentic STL Italian food downtown off the Hill.

I seriously hope you're joking.  Charlie Gitto's Downtown SUCKS SHIT.  It is absolute crap.  Gitto's on the Hill is a lot better, but still not one of the best.

The best authentic Italian food in the city can be found on the Hill of course:

Giovanni's
Dominic's
Gian-Tony's
Lorenzo's
Cunetto's
Bartolino's
Adriana's (for lunch)
LoRusso's
Trattoria Marcella

...are the best.

There are about 10 or 11 others in and around the Hill that I would classify as mid-range quality.

Off the Hill, the best, most authentic Italian food can be found at:

Giuseppe's (Dutchtown) -- the best Italian in the city, hands down
Gino's (Lindenwood Park) -- outstanding pasta
Bar Italia (CWE) -- nouveau Italian; very imaginitive

...those are my faves.  Let's not even get into the suburban Italian restaurants, of which there are countless good ones.

And who can forget Tony's, a longtime St. Louis institution.  It had been a 5-star restaurant for years before losing one because of having too few vegetarian-friendly items.