Bass Pro - DOWNTOWN?

macnw · Post by **macnw** » Sat Mar 15, 2003 11:37 am

I agree with inkman, I don't know why everyone is so hot about this. We should be happy that some company like Cordish is looking at KC(reminds me of The Rouse Company and their plans for KC's downtown). Who cares if Bass Pro wants to come downtown. I think it says something that they would even consider it. Apparently there are other locations throughout the country where Bass is doing the same thing. Why can't this be done it KC. People say that Bass is not what we want downtown. However, KC sure puts a lot of effort into the American Royal each year. One of the biggest conventions we used to have was Future Farmers of America. I get the idea that people think Bass means "hicksville." We talk about getting back to our roots(how about the Missouri river, fishing?). Should we be embarrassed that an outdoor sports shop is considering downtown? Hey, from what I remember, a good part of Missouri is about outdoor activities(fishing, camping, hiking, canoeing etc..) I say why not Bass!!!!

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Sat Mar 15, 2003 8:29 pm

The reason Bass Pro is considering it is because Barnes will give them free land and no taxes for the next 20 years. And having a convention of hicks once a year is a lot different than having downtown filled with hicks everyday.

Post by **mean** » Sun Mar 16, 2003 7:51 am

How about we don't make any rash megaretail choices, and instead we let the population density increase and bring a solid tax base back to downtown. Big retail might or might not work, but getting people moved in should be the #1 priority for the next several years. Then it should be up to the people living and working there. The city seems to be scrounging for ANYTHING that MIGHT get people downtown, whether it's a good idea or not. Luring big anchors to downtown with 20 year tax abatements and free land is dumb...in less than 20 years downtown could be attracting businesses that WANT to build there and don't need to be lubed up by the city with freebies. Tax abatements and free land are only needed if we want them to build NOW. So to hell with 'em. You don't need a Bass Pro to pull in residents.

ShowME · Post by **ShowME** » Sun Mar 16, 2003 9:47 am

I really don't understand what Bass Pro is doing. They're already building one in downtown OKC, Little Rock and Arkansas. Plus they already have a location in St. Charles, MO. They're spreading themselves to thin if you ask me. What kind of uniqueness is there when these places are popping up like WalMarts? None is you ask me.

sarah · Post by **sarah** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 8:48 am

I'm disappointed with Mary Kay Faye for going after this. At least she now wears less eye makeup. If we must have a massive entertainment section downtown, get something with wider appeal, not gun toting, flag worshipping businesses. For better or worse, if this goes through, expect a wave of country music bars in the area. If we are really lucky, downtown could become a Branson. Woo hoo!

Downtown gentrification was driven by the artist and gay communities taking a lot of risks. It would be sad to see downtown turn into a Branson after all of their hard efforts.

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 3:04 pm

Talk is still surfacing on this stupid idea. Do we want to imitate Oklahoma City or Chicago? Who would want to live next to an ugly, suburban monster like one of these stores? A store that's built like a log cabine simply doesn't belong in an urban environment. It belongs next to a freeway with asphault for miles around it. I'd rather live next to an adult bookstore. Why don't they build this thing up north? Put it by Zona Rosa on the I-29 corridor. Using this store as an anchor would alieniate all the people who want a chic, urban lifestyle. Reviving downtown is imperative, but turning it into a tourist trap is not.

Developer eager to land Bass Pro Shops for downtown site
By KEVIN COLLISON
The Kansas City Star

Bass Pro Shops is a prime retailing catch in America, and Kansas City won't regret the cost if it lands one downtown, a top national developer said Friday.

"If I had to pick the number one most sought-after retail/entertainment tenant, they are the proverbial prettiest girl at the dance -- and they know it," said developer David Cordish, founder of the Baltimore-based Cordish Co.

"If you want it, it's a hard deal to get. But I don't know of any city not happy they did. They will draw several million people a year."

Cordish is negotiating a 90-day exclusive development agreement with city officials to create a downtown entertainment district.

Bass Pro Shops is his prime target.

"They are a perfect anchor," he said. "If we get them, other good tenants will follow."

The retailers the Cordish Co. attracts to its downtown projects in other cities include Hard Rock Cafe, Barnes & Noble, ESPN Zone, and other restaurants and entertainment venues.

Oklahoma City officials, while not a Cordish development site, don't regret the $17 million the city is paying to bring Bass Pro downtown. The city not only is financing a home for the sporting goods store, but also is charging reduced rent.

City Manager Jim Couch said his community is calculating that Bass Pro Shops will attract other retailers to the downtown Bricktown district.

The 100,000-square-foot Oklahoma City store will open in November and feature a stream from its door to a canal where customers can test merchandise. The sales tax generated should repay the city's investment in 14 years, Couch said.

Oklahoma City will own the building and has a 20-year lease with Bass Pro. The company will pay a base rent of $610,000, less than market rate, and 1.5 percent of sales over $45 million.

Cordish said his company has a good relationship with Springfield-based Bass Pro Shops. It's building the firm a store in Hampton, Va., and has two other stores on the drawing board.

"They're very honorable people," Cordish said. "(Bass Pro founder) Johnny Morris is a gem."

Bass Pro Shops is being courted by other locations in the Kansas City area, including Olathe and Blue Ridge Mall. Company spokesman Larry Whitely said the company has an open mind.

"No decisions have been made on any of the options in Kansas City, and there are a number of those," Whitely said.

Cordish said a downtown location would be a natural for Bass Pro because it could be conveniently accessed from all corners of the metropolitan area and beyond. The stores generally draw customers from many miles away.

"I think with the drawability they have, they'd be well served to be there," he said.

The Cordish Co. claims to be the largest developer of downtown entertainment districts in the country. The firm has projects totaling $1.2 billion under way in nine cities.

Cordish thinks Kansas City is ripe for the kind of downtown projects his firm specializes in developing. Both the market and leadership are in place, he said.

Cordish supervised Andi Udris, president of the Kansas City Economic Development Corp., when both worked at the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development in the late 1970s.

"Andi Udris is one of the top people in the country. I've seen the success he's had," Cordish said. "The mayor is sharp as a tack and is going to make things happen."

Mayor Kay Barnes returned the compliment.

"They have an excellent reputation and bring a great deal of expertise," she said. "I'm delighted that we're working with them."

The seven-block area the city wants Cordish to consider for redevelopment overlaps much of the old Power & Light District. It runs between Grand and Baltimore, from 13th Street to the south edge of the downtown freeway loop, and includes the old Jones Store block.

The site is just west of where a city task force is expected to recommend building a new arena, 14th and Grand.

Udris said the Economic Development Corp. was proposing to pay $40,000 for the consulting work. Cordish would return by May 30 with a preliminary plan that would include potential tenants and locations, and identify parking and access issues.

A key to making the entertainment district work is state approval of the proposed Missouri Downtown Economic Stimulus Act now being considered in the General Assembly.

The legislation, which would return a portion of the new state sales and income taxes generated by a downtown project, has been approved by the House and is now before the Senate.

"There is no question the entertainment district will only happen if MoDESA passes," Udris said.

One factor in the proposed development's favor is that about 80 percent of the downtown site is controlled by three owners: UMB Bank, DST Systems and Executive Hills.

All the owners say they're willing to cooperate with the city.

Vincent P. Dasta, president of DST Realty, said he had met Blake Cordish, David Cordish's son and the executive in charge of the Kansas City proposal.

"My impression is his firm is certainly capable of pulling something like this off," Dasta said. "We would be supportive of any project to invigorate the urban core."

R. Crosby Kemper III, president and CEO of UMB Bank, said his bank owns one block inside the proposed entertainment district.

"If there's something that can happen to make downtown a destination place, we'll be as supportive as we can be," Kemper said.

tat2kc · Post by **tat2kc** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 4:56 pm

a bass pro shop, if built well for an urban setting, could generate the foot traffic necessary to help restaurants and other retail survive outside of the monday-friday 9-5 time slots. very few retail sites within the loop are open ourside of regular business hours. It would be nice to see crowds downtown on the sidewalks on weekends or after 5, even when nothing is happening at Bartle or the Music Hall. Maybe build parking or even the store over the south loop, which would help bridge the canyon.

Another potential plus to Bass Pro ( and a huge stumbling block to their decision to locate downtown) is the requirement for an outdoor water feature. If that was put in in the area, and done well and be a part of downtown's landscape, it could be a nice draw. Of course it would have to be done nicely, and open for public use/viewing/strolling as well as a vehicle for Bass customers to try out equipment.

KCN · Post by **KCN** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 5:54 pm

I am all for a Bass Pro downtown, for reasons stated earlier. Especially the fact, as tat2kc pointed out, it would increase foot traffic downtown to further help other restaurants and retailers, and urge more to come downtown.

The only thing about that article I do not like is its location. They would be taking up a very large amount of prime real estate between Bartle Hall and the (hopeful) arena. If downtown continues on its current course, this is the area any future retailers or restaurants would want to be. I don't understand why they wouldnt want to put it toward Union Station/Crown Center/Liberty Memorial, where all the tourist stuff is anyway.

But, anything in the southern loop is better than what is currently there I guess...

(and I have emailed my thoughts to the address given above, thanks ignatius)

KCN · Post by **KCN** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 7:07 pm

I think this is a matter of whether we can attract something better than BPS. If not, telling BPS to go somewhere else would be a big mistake.

I do not think this is the case though, and the SoLo spot BPS is looking at belongs to other types of development.

However, I think BPS would be good somewhere close to downtown, just not right there. All the arguments about the types of people Bass Pro attracts are bogus (I think) because BP is not exactly the cheapest merchandise around. The types of people we are afraid of attracting all get their stuff at Wal-Mart and keep it for 20-30 years.

Do keep in mind that KC's tourist base is very regional. The more tourists we get downtown, the more money goes to additional business downtown. And a lot of people in NE/IA/KS/OK/MO/AR like to fish and hunt. Who is to say a couple from Dodge City, KS will not want to go downtown, play around with some fishing gear, then go eat at a nice place downtown?

With that said, I do believe there is a spot for everything and the downtown loop is not where Bass Pro belongs. Keep the tourist stuff with the other tourist stuff, down by Union Station/Libery Memorial and Crown Center. The loop needs to focus on being residential and business, like a "real" city.

A succesful downtown needs solid residential, business, and tourist bases. All 3 are important. But in this case I believe putting a large tourist attraction in that spot infringes on the other two.

If Bass Pro decides to locate outside the loop I am for it.

If it decides to locate within the loop (as it currently does), I am against it.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 7:19 pm

i'd have to see a proposed design to make a final decision....I'm not against BPS as a store but if it's built like Cabela's or Home depot on Linwood, I'll have to say no.

Now if they build a cool 3 story BPS that has a compact footprint and next to a small lake tied in with the linear park proposed between the arena site and the Hotel President, I'm all for it. The foot traffic and businesses that would come along with it would be a huge bonus.

KCN · Post by **KCN** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 7:36 pm

I just remembered that 2 friends of mine (from Springfield) said locals are getting pissed at Bass Pro because they feel they own that part of SGF and keep wanting to buy up property around it.

Something to keep in mind I guess.

tat2kc · Post by **tat2kc** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 11:53 pm

what about this development put down by the River Front Park? it would force the area to be cleaned up, and jumpstart some more development and traffic at the park, and still leave room for more residential and or commercial development.

KCN · Post by **KCN** » Sun Mar 30, 2003 1:18 am

Riverfront would be great. It seems natural to put a sporting goods store next to a river.

KCgridlock · Post by **KCgridlock** » Sun Mar 30, 2003 1:59 pm

We really need to fix and tie together the river market to plaza corridor first. The riverfront and west bottoms etc should come later.

KC has got to concentrate on downtown, what would investing a bunch of money into the riverfront do for the overall good of KC? Any retail development down there would not be tied to anything else and it would be one more attraction in this city that is flung away from the downtown core. One more bus to take or parking spot to find to do one thing.

Put it in a big retail development as part of the arena. I know you purist dont' like it but come one. I personally am not a bass pro fan, but can see the big picture and would enjoy the "other" specialty stores and resturaunts that a bass pro would bring just becuase of the numbers of people that would be downtown at any givin time.

I would love to be able to go downtown on a weekend and not be embarasesed about my downtown. A bass pro is about the only thing that will bring much needed retail base to downtown and weekend foot traffic when KC already has the plaza and crown center.

We need this guys and if the bass pro sucks in general, so be it, at least we might be able to get an espn zone, niketown or SOMETHING out of it.

I'm tired of coming downtown on the weekend and ther is NOBODY there.

phxcat · Post by **phxcat** » Sun Mar 30, 2003 2:58 pm

This seems like something we need to see to decide on. I have serious problems imagining Bass Pro fitting in downtown because a big part of the art of architecture is not just about the building but how it fits with the area around it. I would hate for something like Bass Pro to come in and mess up the integrity of the surrounding areas. On the other hand, if it is done right it may work. We would just have to see it to make a good judgement.

As for the riverfront, that would seem to be a place for it to fit, and there is already stuff down there, or planned. Has anybody seen the plans for the Town of Kansas site?

phxcat · Post by **phxcat** » Sun Mar 30, 2003 3:04 pm

In other words, I guess it seems like the loop is completly devoid of touristy stuff, where the River Market has the potential, with the Steamship Arabia, Town of Kansas, and any other proposed river front attractions. The river front is an area that needs to be used, and with the walking trails linking it to KCK, where there is a proposal to develop the Louis and Clark campsite, there is a lot of tourism potential in that area, and the potential to develop an area that is unique to Kansas City. Bass Pro may fit in well with that. The PAC and arena provide an entirely different type of entertainment. I think the loop as a whole should focus on residential, business, and bars/restaurants/retail that will support those populations.

The big key is transportation!

Post by **dangerboy** » Sun Mar 30, 2003 3:55 pm

trailerkid wrote:Talk is still surfacing on this stupid idea. ... Using this store as an anchor would alieniate all the people who want a chic, urban lifestyle. Reviving downtown is imperative, but turning it into a tourist trap is not.

I totally disagree. The entire history of Kansas City is full of many rural and agricultural connections like the stockyards, cattle, farmers, settlers, etc. The fact that Kansas City has an urban downtown with strong connections to it's rural and agricultural heritage is a unique thing that should be promoted more.

Bass Pro is an excellent choice to draw more people downtown, given the huge audience in the small towns and cities surrounding the metro and the many lakes and hunting and fishing areas in throughout western Missouri.

And I can tell you from experience that many people from the outlying areas are not nearly as hesitant about coming into the city as many of people right here in our own suburbs. Give them a reason to come downtown and they will. There is no reason why our downtown can't provide tourist destinations as well as neighborhoods and jobs.

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Sun Mar 30, 2003 3:55 pm

Screw Bass Pro....let's go after IKEA.

Post by **dangerboy** » Sun Mar 30, 2003 4:27 pm

The market for Bass Pro is much wider than these evil surbanites y'all are bitching about. These stores draw out of town visitors from hundreds of miles away, and would be a huge deal for conventioneers. That means in addition to buying fishing boats they are also spending money to stay at a hotel, eat at a couple of restaraunts, and probably visit other places like the zoo, plaza, or crown center.

If some of the people here could see past your prejudices of the country you might be surpised to find out that many people from the outlying towns do come into the city for cultural events, sporting activities, etc - and would be likely to do more of that if the city had more to offer.

A very likely scenario would have Ma and Pa Kettle dropping the kids off at GameWorks while they spend the morning at the City Market, then Pa going to Bass Pro while Ma shops at Crown Center, followed by dinner at the Italian Gardens.

Downtown won't become a shopping mall like the Plaza because it is not all owned by one company, but rather many owners. There is plenty of room for your hip urban neighorhods AND regional and tourist attractions.

tat2kc · Post by **tat2kc** » Sun Mar 30, 2003 4:56 pm

much as some people might disagree, parts of downtown are very tourist-oriented. One of the biggest complaints from conventin goers is the lack of activiites outside of Bartle Hall. A downtown tourism district would greatly enhance the marketability of the convention center. It would be a huge boost the hotels in the loop, and perhaps even help the President Hotel folks secure financing. The large numbers of people who would walk from Bartle Hall to a BPS would generate much more foot traffic in the loop, and justify more restaurants and clubs to move in. I mean, hell, even McDonald's is closed down there on the weekends! (not pro-mcdonalds, so no flames!! ) The sales taxes generated by the increased numbers of folks on the street can go a long way towards helping downtown.

But the critics do need to be heard! Whatever goes into a tourism/convention district needs to be reflective of a vibrant downtown environment, not a suburban box plopped into downtown. Much as I appreciate Home Depot/Costco, they should have been forced to submit a design that reflects its location.

I enjoy BPS, and some of its merchandise. The clothing is top notch, and i would love to get some of the camping gear and such. It is not a low cost store by any means, and the sales will generate a nice level of tax revenue to improve the area.

Now if we could get the arena designed by the PAC team, as well as the Bartle expansion, that would create an amazing tie in to existing buildings and create a distinctive environment.