3 Downtowns

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trailerkid
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3 Downtowns

Postby trailerkid » Mon Nov 17, 2003 5:17 pm

Something has been mentioned a lot about Downtown Lawrence that I think really relates to Downtown KC. Leaders in Lawrence say there are three separate downtowns...
1. Downtown during the day (8-5, workday & business downtown)
2. Downtown in the evening (5- 10, Dining and entertainment downtown)
3. Downtown at night/early morning (10-3, nightlife and bars)

The point is that downtown is being used nearly 24 hours a day in 3 different shifts.

Wouldn't this be a model for further developing Downtown KC, specifically the Loop? We have a somewhat strong workday environment set up, but the emphasis now should be on attracting the city's best and most unique dining and entertainment venues, then bring in the bars and nightclubs to complete the cycle. It's almost like downtown should physically mirror the lives of the people who use it...go to work, get something to eat, have a little fun afterwards.

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3 Downtowns

Postby bahua » Tue Nov 18, 2003 2:34 pm

Movie theatre, bowling alley, another brewery, and a bunch of ethnic restaurants. I want these things downtown, and I think we are well on the way.

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3 Downtowns

Postby dangerboy » Tue Nov 18, 2003 3:35 pm

Good illustration trailerkid. I think we are well on our way to this situation with all of the residential growth that is starting to fill the second and third shifts.

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3 Downtowns

Postby mpls » Wed Nov 19, 2003 12:57 am

what time do bars close in kansas city?
i really like the three shift principle.

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3 Downtowns

Postby GRID » Wed Nov 19, 2003 1:03 am

Oh yea, if KC's downtown were a giant downtown Larrytown, that would be sweet.

3 downtowns... that makes me think of our three downtowns and most of the reasons or Downtown doesn't have three downtowns.

WTF did I just say?

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3 Downtowns

Postby GRID » Wed Nov 19, 2003 1:05 am

Just to clear that up. I'm talking about the Loop, Crown Center and the Plaza. We have everything if not more than most big cities, it's just all spread out over "three downtowns".

Whatever.

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3 Downtowns

Postby GRID » Wed Nov 19, 2003 1:08 am

So we don't have that single Downtown and all the shopping, entertainment and vibrancy that goes along with it. And we probably never will.

People need to realize that even when Downtown KC (the loop) is revitalized, it won't be like Downtown Denver etc.

OK, I'm probably not making sense.

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3 Downtowns

Postby trailerkid » Wed Nov 19, 2003 2:43 am

I think I get what you're saying Grid...

I don't think it's realistic to expect Downtown to be "Plaza-like" and attract the biggest and best retail. Many other cities have tried to build massive downtown malls paying to bring in Lord and Taylor, Neiman's and Saks...and it seems the results have mostly been mixed.

I do think the workday downtown could be a vital mix of unique local shops, lunch spots, and eventually a few chains (Gap, Banana Republic, Chipotle). We need to get a TON of foot traffic from workers and residents to get the ball rolling...which means we need more companies and residences to be located in the CBD.

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3 Downtowns

Postby QueSi2Opie » Wed Nov 19, 2003 12:24 pm

mpls wrote:what time do bars close in kansas city?
i really like the three shift principle.


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Zoning

Postby FangKC » Thu Nov 20, 2003 5:59 am

One of the problems that I see here is what appears to be lack of good zoning practices. If the city stopped granting zoning changes and building permits for large office buildings on the Plaza, then those larger office buildings would have to build downtown, the Crossroads District, and Crown Center. It appears that people who live in the Plaza area don't want these office buildings anyway (which stopped the Park Lane). There even appears to be some opposition to another large apartment tower being constructed in the future next to that one that exists now south of Brush Creek on the hill. Those types of buildings should be constructed nearer to downtown anyway. Building office buildings on the Plaza results in have to use TIF funds to build more parking garages as well. There should be a moratorium on office buildings on the Plaza.

The Plaza attracts these new office projects because of its attractive qualities (public art, fountains, architecture, landscaping, wide sidewalks). Start creating ambience like that downtown and office buildings and large apartment towers will follow.

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Re: Zoning

Postby dangerboy » Thu Nov 20, 2003 9:04 am

FangKC wrote:One of the problems that I see here is what appears to be lack of good zoning practices. If the city stopped granting zoning changes and building permits for large office buildings on the Plaza, then those larger office buildings would have to build downtown, the Crossroads District, and Crown Center.


Unfortunately it isn't this simple. For many companies the Plaza is the only urban location that they will consider. The Blackwell Sanders law firm is a good example... They were determined to leave Downtown and the choice came down to the Plaza or Corporate Woods. They were willing to stay in the city, but only if it was on the Plaza. Take away the Plaza option before Downtown becomes more competative and many companies will quickly choose the suburbs.

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3 Downtowns

Postby TheDude » Thu Nov 20, 2003 1:19 pm

why didn't i get an invite to the bong party???? put the pipes down. KCMO is more about chasing late night clubs out of downtown then keeping them there (remember the club on Walnut & 9th?). couldnt get a liquor license cause Tower Properties didn't like the idea of a late night club going in across the street. OLD SCHOOL BABY! we have 1 downtown--8-5. problem is that we have submarkets (Crossroads, Westport, Plaza, 39th street, etc) that already have organic energy and have established themselves as destination points. downtown (w/in the loop) is facing an uphill battle. Power and Light was our only shot and the window is closed.

now i got the munchies......
"ALWAYS be closing"

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3 Downtowns

Postby mean » Thu Nov 20, 2003 10:04 pm

Yeah, downtown has a history of being unfriendly to the bar scene. Doesn't have to stay that way, though.
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3 Downtowns

Postby FangKC » Fri Nov 21, 2003 11:14 am

Yeah, I think that stems from the past. 12th Street used to be a lively nightclub district. KC was a wild-ass place back in the 1920s-40s. I think conservative elements wanted to rid KC of its reputation for being a "wide-open" town. The problem is that they went too far and eradicated ALL the nightlife downtown. People want to have fun when they come here. When the City sucked the nightlife out of downtown, convention business fell off dramatically.


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