Clayton, MO CBD Boom (Centene, etc)

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warwickland
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Clayton, MO CBD Boom (Centene, etc)

Post by warwickland » Wed Aug 03, 2016 10:23 am

New renderings of the Centene 1.5 million square foot expansion in the Clayton CBD:

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https://nextstl.com

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https://nextstl.com

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https://nextstl.com

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https://nextstl.com

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https://nextstl.com

I hope that this graphic is instructive for those unfamiliar with the Clayton CBD. Some may be familiar with the "Clayton Hole," which has been vacant for some time on the eastern end of the CBD. This will be built upon, thankfully. That's parcel 3, above.

other projects currently under contruction:

212 south meremec (currently has a crane on site, up to about the 8th floor now):

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vanguard (currently under construction):
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plus more smaller projects, and various office/residential highrise proposals awaiting approval in the shadows of the centene development.

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warwickland
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Re: Clayton, MO CBD Boom (Centene, etc)

Post by warwickland » Wed Aug 03, 2016 10:35 am

i'm guessing that's not going to be a Fresh Market grocery store in the retail space on Meremec, now, since they have been closing stores around the country...

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Re: Clayton, MO CBD Boom (Centene, etc)

Post by warwickland » Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:16 am

as far as centene, i'm hearing 2.25 million square ft total, not including parking, including a residential component. i'm also hearing that garages may end up wrapped in additional retail.

a ground level rendering on the far east end of the project, near the metro station/washington university.

Image

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Re: Clayton, MO CBD Boom (Centene, etc)

Post by StL_Dan » Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:19 pm

Clayton...the new regional downtown? http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... 8c4e2.html

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Re: Clayton, MO CBD Boom (Centene, etc)

Post by flyingember » Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:02 pm

I heard Clayton described as a second downtown for StL a decade ago.

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Re: Clayton, MO CBD Boom (Centene, etc)

Post by Louman » Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:54 pm

flyingember wrote:I heard Clayton described as a second downtown for StL a decade ago.
Clayton has been described by a lot of names:

1. "The New Downtown"
2. St. Louis' "Second Downtown"
3. St. Louis' "Uptown"
4. St. Louis County's "Downtown"

Unfortunately, while downtown Clayton has a viable purpose, it poaches firms downtown St. Louis. And although Centene has always been HQd in Clayton with offices throughout metro St. Louis, it would have been nice to have this project downtown instead of Clayton.

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Re: Clayton, MO CBD Boom (Centene, etc)

Post by Louman » Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:55 pm

Read more about the Centene project and other major Clayton projects and proposals here:

http://cranetrackerstl.com/clayton

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Re: Clayton, MO CBD Boom (Centene, etc)

Post by rxlexi » Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:37 am

Clayton, while full of some of the most beautiful residential real estate in the state, is IMO a major drag on development in downtown STL and a general sense of "center" within the downtown to midtown corridor.

Downtown Clayton is 8 miles from the Arch as the crow flies, a distance that would place you in Waldo from the river in KC. Albeit, STL has a much larger/denser urban core, but because STL spreads so far west Clayton and surrounds feel more like a regional center than downtown, way off on the eastern edge.

Would love to have seen the Centene development/expansion at Ballpark Village as planned several years ago.

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Re: Clayton, MO CBD Boom (Centene, etc)

Post by brewcrew1000 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:10 pm

Bellevue Wa, and Clayton Mo. 2 of the most impressive 2nd downtowns in the US
Last edited by brewcrew1000 on Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Clayton, MO CBD Boom (Centene, etc)

Post by warwickland » Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:49 am

It's true that clayton puts a drag on downtown, but it's also true that clayton gets development that would NEVER go downtown, and would only otherwise go to west county within the central corridor. this is not a small amount of development, either. so, it's a mixed bag. i'm hoping that clayton gets "built out," soon. it might get close after centene gets finished, save for a few smaller parking lots here and there. clayton is completely hemmed in by very highly desirable residential streets, so it's not like it can "infinitely" grow like a sprawled municipaility such as chesterfield. it's a generally pre-war streetcar suburb.

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Re: Clayton, MO CBD Boom (Centene, etc)

Post by warwickland » Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:11 pm

the centene proposal has recently been "cleaned up" with more street level uses/retail and additional residential. some open space/plaza-crap has been eliminated and buildings "tightened up."

Image
nextstl.com

Image
nextstl.com

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Re: Clayton, MO CBD Boom (Centene, etc)

Post by kboish » Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:03 am

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... um=twitter

Apparently, Clayton was facing an initiative petition to try to stop the Centene development. Instead, the council declared it unworkable, threw it out and raised the requirement for petition initiatives.

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Re: Clayton, MO CBD Boom (Centene, etc)

Post by warwickland » Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:39 pm

i can kind of understand the annoyance with the amount of rush hour traffic (which isn't really terrible unless you are on hanley southbound to I-64). it's a strange situation...there's a desire for higher density office environments in st. louis, but the demand is in every central corridor node except for downtown. clayton has mutiple cranes on the skyline, and it's about to get a few more.

i kind of feel like clayton should have had a DC like cap on building heights, if anywhere in st. louis area did. more streetwall, more retail, less office highrise. the neighbors might be a little less worked up. the largest proposals would likely go east. they should have experimented with form based codes, if anyone could afford to. they do have some pro-urban planning documentation which i guess has guided some of this.

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Re: Clayton, MO CBD Boom (Centene, etc)

Post by Chris Stritzel » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:08 pm

Currently, Downtown Clayton is whooping Downtown St. Louis as far as New Construction is concerned. Here are the latest proposals. At the current rate things are going, Clayton is seeing 2 New Proposals every Month.
https://nextstl.com/2017/02/nine-story- ... h-clayton/
https://nextstl.com/2017/02/70m-24-stor ... n-clayton/

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Re: Clayton, MO CBD Boom (Centene, etc)

Post by warwickland » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:24 am

Chris Stritzel wrote:Currently, Downtown Clayton is whooping Downtown St. Louis as far as New Construction is concerned. Here are the latest proposals. At the current rate things are going, Clayton is seeing 2 New Proposals every Month.
https://nextstl.com/2017/02/nine-story- ... h-clayton/
https://nextstl.com/2017/02/70m-24-stor ... n-clayton/

downtown clayton has a tiny, hemmed in footprint compared to downtown st. louis. now that the "clayton hole" is being filled in, that really only leaves infill on parking lots, which is happening (or demolition, which is happening), or *some* expansion along north and south rd towards u-city which already has some lowrise stuff, or west along maryland towards I-170, which is seeing new lowrise construction.

at some point clayton is going to be somewhat built out. i don't see neighborhood support for east coast (long island city, etc) level density, honestly, the clayton sfh neighborhoods are going to freak. at that point downtown may see more activity, hopefully.

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Re: Clayton, MO CBD Boom (Centene, etc)

Post by warwickland » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:47 am

Louman wrote:
flyingember wrote:I heard Clayton described as a second downtown for StL a decade ago.
Clayton has been described by a lot of names:

1. "The New Downtown"
2. St. Louis' "Second Downtown"
3. St. Louis' "Uptown"
4. St. Louis County's "Downtown"

Unfortunately, while downtown Clayton has a viable purpose, it poaches firms downtown St. Louis. And although Centene has always been HQd in Clayton with offices throughout metro St. Louis, it would have been nice to have this project downtown instead of Clayton.
i want to think of clayton as uptown, but it has traditionally felt more like st. louis countys downtown, especially when you are driving south on north and south or hanley through a pre-war county neighborhood and it pops up on the horizon (not to mention the county courts, county police hq, etc). it feels like you are actually driving towards the primary downtown of some moderately sized sunbelt city in north carolina, or something. however, younger people think of it more like an uptown, i'd say, of a contiguous corridor.

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Re: Clayton, MO CBD Boom (Centene, etc)

Post by hgascoigne » Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:36 pm

I'm most impressed by the architecture of these buildings. A lot less econobox action compared to our local developments.

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Re: Clayton, MO CBD Boom (Centene, etc)

Post by kman » Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:46 am


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Re: Clayton, MO CBD Boom (Centene, etc)

Post by warwickland » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:05 pm

there was another proposal on hanley further north that was shot down, probably the neighbors torpedoed it. kind of dumb considering that hanley already has a little residential highrise cluster. i'd almost rather see more slender, tall highrise stuff along there than these squat, chunky proposals that have been popping up.

im allergy medded up + beer so that reads really weird.

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Re: Clayton, MO CBD Boom (Centene, etc)

Post by rxlexi » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:53 am

i'd almost rather see more slender, tall highrise stuff along there than these squat, chunky proposals that have been popping up.
Ahh, wouldn't we all, but for the cost. Have you been snooping around the KC convention hotel thread? :lol:

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