Record Bar on Westport Road

[JBmidtown]

I can't see why a business couldn't be allowed to have at least a year long test run in these spaces to see if they can comply with neighborhood association rules and act as a boon for further investment in the area. Blocking any use and holding out for high end establishments is unrealistic and more toxic than helpful.

no one is saying high end, just something useful to them that won't be a nuisance if you live nearby -- if they're serving liquor. most homeowners would say that's NOT a venue like record bar. the consent process is for individual property owners (commercial AND residential), not neighborhood associations.

the other complication is a loophole that allows another business to buy someone out and get the license with no additional consent process. it makes people a lot less willing to support an applicant when they could sell to someone who'll be less of a good neighbor.

Well, I still stand by my belief that the two elements - a bar/venue and a restaurant - are being split between different locations. Realistically a venue of the RB's size wouldn't fit in such a dense environment. I still hold that a restaurant element could work in that parcel and would interact more benignly with the surrounding neighborhoods. Only thing is...it would need more parking.

Just kidding. Mostly. I think those parcels would be best for small coffee shops and corner shops. Corner shops that provide more options than the convenience stores currently on Troost. Those would be nice additions that would boost the profile of Troost without causing much commotion.

As far as the venue/bar element is considered, I agree with mgh7676 that the old Katz Drugstore on Troost and Linwood would be great. It could aid in bringing traffic to the "Legacy Crossing" parcels in that area, the old millionaire's row. It's an area more suited for adult recreation because it's not butted up against dense residential neighborhoods, or at least has enough buffer between Longfellow. I'm not sure about the structural integrity of the old Katz drugstore though. Its foundation looks a little iffy and I don't see much tender loving care being applied to it.

[pash]

.

[JBmidtown]

Read the past dozen posts, describing the impossibility of opening a small music venue on one of the city's major thoroughfares, and you will learn quite a lot about what's basically wrong with this city.

It's heartbreaking

[grovester]

I can't see why a business couldn't be allowed to have at least a year long test run in these spaces to see if they can comply with neighborhood association rules and act as a boon for further investment in the area. Blocking any use and holding out for high end establishments is unrealistic and more toxic than helpful.

no one is saying high end, just something useful to them that won't be a nuisance if you live nearby -- if they're serving liquor. most homeowners would say that's NOT a venue like record bar. the consent process is for individual property owners (commercial AND residential), not neighborhood associations.

the other complication is a loophole that allows another business to buy someone out and get the license with no additional consent process. it makes people a lot less willing to support an applicant when they could sell to someone who'll be less of a good neighbor.

This is the key issue why these businesses aren't welcomed. Once the license is granted it could go to anybody including the worst douche bottle service skybar ultra swank. I'd vote no too. There needs to be a review process every time the license is potentially transferred.

[longviewmo]

There isn't a review process in KCMO? I know Lee's Summit even makes them clear it with the city every time there's a new manager.

[aknowledgeableperson]

It doesn't need a change in ownership. All it takes is an owner doing a "bait and switch". Promise one thing and then completely change the concept of the bar.

[KCtoBrooklyn]

I can agree with both sides of the argument here.

I detest NIMYs, particularly those who buy in an urban neighborhood but are against density and development. I do think at times, too much power is given to neighborhoods to block development that some vocal residents might dislike, but would be beneficial to the area and city as a whole. The red tape and restrictions do seem to harm development in KC.

However, the opposite extreme of green-lighting any development or liquor license is even more harmful - and evidence of that can be seen right on Troost. These blocks of Troost do have a high amount of single family home owners (some with kids) on Harrison and Forrest that could potentially abut the bar and I wouldn't blame them for not wanting all the noise that comes with a music venue and 1:30 bar in your backyard.

I do agree that the old Katz on Linwood and Troost would be a great location. However, I believe that building is still owned by Habitat for Humanity. They had planned to put either a ReStore or offices at that location, but found that the building needed too much work. I don't know the extent of the repairs needed, but if an organization with the resources of Habitat can't make it work, then that doesn't bode well for the Record Bar or anyone else.

[JBmidtown]

I can agree with both sides of the argument here.

I detest NIMYs, particularly those who buy in an urban neighborhood but are against density and development. I do think at times, too much power is given to neighborhoods to block development that some vocal residents might dislike, but would be beneficial to the area and city as a whole. The red tape and restrictions do seem to harm development in KC.

However, the opposite extreme of green-lighting any development or liquor license is even more harmful - and evidence of that can be seen right on Troost. These blocks of Troost do have a high amount of single family home owners (some with kids) on Harrison and Forrest that could potentially abut the bar and I wouldn't blame them for not wanting all the noise that comes with a music venue and 1:30 bar in your backyard.

I do agree that the old Katz on Linwood and Troost would be a great location. However, I believe that building is still owned by Habitat for Humanity. They had planned to put either a ReStore or offices at that location, but found that the building needed too much work. I don't know the extent of the repairs needed, but if an organization with the resources of Habitat can't make it work, then that doesn't bode well for the Record Bar or anyone else.

I was afraid that was the case. There are still other large spaces in millionaire's row that would work for the Record Bar but I think Clemons Real Estate is focusing on promoting those as co-working spaces for startups.

The more I think about it the more it makes sense that the area isn't well suited for a 1:30 bar. There should be more focus on attracting large, family households instead of single occupancy households in these neighborhoods anyways, especially if the goal is to attract more infill development. Still, I would like to see one of the commercial spaces in the 42nd-43rd blocks of Troost used for a corner store, one with fresh produce, meats and specialty items. Maybe selling lunch and having a cafe element to it. It would also be great if that place employed members of the community so it wasn't a trojan horse of...racially specific gentrification. The best of all worlds, really. If Mac Properties implements their plan for Armour and Troost, the "Legacy Crossing" area can attract some entertainment businesses and more retail, and these 42nd-43rd blocks can attract local businesses that offer much needed amenities for Manheim and Hyde Park, I think it would be a huge turning point for bringing jobs, amenities, tax income, a developmental momentum to east of Troost and would boost the economy in those low income neighborhoods. I'm excited about the strides being made downtown and midtown/plaza but I won't feel satisfied until the Troost barrier is finally dissolved.

If I had the capital there would be so much I would do. Some day.

[chrizow]

re: the liquor license issue, i worked on a couple of those when i was on the hyde park neighborhood association board. we modeled our approach after the union hill neighborhood's approach. basically, you can negotiate a "conditional" liquor license, in which an applicant can receive a liquor license, assuming they maintain certain conditions. those conditions can include anything - hours of operation, noise, whatever - but the main concern is that the license cannot be transferred to the next owner or operator. there is probably a way in which it can be worded to avoid the same operator simply "switching concepts" and becoming a nuisance. this strikes a good balance.

it's also true that neighboring property owners are the ones with the "votes." on many parts of troost, however, the owners are absentee, and sometimes a single owner will own 2/3 of the properties within the radius, giving that owner de facto veto power (or the power to grant). also, churches have an outsized influence in this.

[beautyfromashes]

also, churches have an outsized influence in this.

Hurray for churches!

[WinchesterMysteryHouse]

El Torreon would have been a good spot.

On Facebook, Tulipana ruled this out- someone asked
"2nd possible rumor: recordBar is moving near Martini Corner possibly in the CowTown upstairs space or in some other warehouse building."

Tulipana says, "We looked. No good."

Its a compelling situation. They've got alot of clout and make things happen. It's compelling how the real estate world interacts with a successful cultural business.

[kboish]

http://www.kansascity.com/entertainment ... 49622.html

1520 Grand.

Having this caliber of a venue in such a prominent location is going to be great for the street activity DT. Good for Xroads. This plus prohibition hall, green lady, tank room, Xroads KC, the Live stage, the Midland, the PAC, makes for a pretty well rounded, expansive music scene DT. AND, i'd say Westport/Midtown is no worse for the wear and probably even stepped up its game since it has been forced to evolve.

Edit: Ooops I forgot the place i was at last weekend...the Brick!

[grovester]

Exactly where I wanted it to end up!

[brewcrew1000]

Maybe someone will be interested in the old Dukes Building on the NE corner of that block

[WSPanic]

Is anything in Czar Bar space? I'm glad Record Bar didn't settle on that. I never thought Czar Bar was a good place to see a show. Also happy to see them go from 300 to 400 capacity - should be able to continue booking the same type of shows they did in the previous location.

I did enjoy the dinner show series at Record Bar - looks like they're unsure on food service now (beyond "maybe pizza"). Will be interesting to see if they ever get back to a full menu. Maybe if they don't do food, they won't need all of the tables they had at shows in Westport.

[DaveKCMO]

Is anything in Czar Bar space?

http://www.vaultkc.com/

[grovester]

Is anything in Czar Bar space? I'm glad Record Bar didn't settle on that. I never thought Czar Bar was a good place to see a show. Also happy to see them go from 300 to 400 capacity - should be able to continue booking the same type of shows they did in the previous location.

I did enjoy the dinner show series at Record Bar - looks like they're unsure on food service now (beyond "maybe pizza"). Will be interesting to see if they ever get back to a full menu. Maybe if they don't do food, they won't need all of the tables they had at shows in Westport.

They are in "pop up" mode now, so pizza is probably the only thing that is viable. If they make a permanent deal I would expect to see a kitchen.

[grovester]

Is anything in Czar Bar space?

http://www.vaultkc.com/

Classy!

[shinatoo]

So it's basically a Missouri Style Strip Club?

(No longer the show me state)