wine.

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chrizow
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wine.

Post by chrizow »

per request, let's have a separate wine thread, so the beer-swilling heathens do not infringe on our classy dialogue.
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kucer
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Re: wine.

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earthling
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Re: wine.

Post by earthling »

A friend is a sommelier (wine certification) under the tutelage of Doug Frost and taught me a few things here and there. BTW, for those who don't know Doug Frost in KC is a Master Sommelier and Master of Wine, one of few people in world who has both certifications. There are many sommeliers in KC (hundreds?) likely because of his presence.

Have been into earthy Old World wines from Rhone (France) and Rioja (Spain) regions lately, they go well with steak. Not really into whites on their own but particularly like Sancerre area whites. Also check out Vhino Verde varieties from Portugal (chilled green wines), They are relatively cheap, have a slight effervescent tingle (not quite sparkling) and they go well with cheeses or light eats - especially like with pesto pasta and salads. Trader Joes has a couple good Verdes for under $10.

BTW random thoughts... red Zin is great with BBQ, Pinot Noir goes well with salmon/tuna, Shiraz/Syrah goes well with spicey foods, especially Thai. For turkey day, would go with Gewurztraminer (German) for a chilled white or Granache for a red - I usually take both if invited somewhere for Tday. BTW #2 for noobs, chill whites but keep reds at room temp (actually 60s temp is considered ideal serving temp for reds, some will put a room temp red in fridge for 20 min before serving).

Purist snobs will turn their nose up to this but there is a box wine that is pretty good for a table wine - Redvolution BotaBox, under $15 at Costco (4 bottles in a box). And works with all kinds of eats from spicy to steaks/BBQ to pizza/pasta and mustardy/vinegary eats.
Last edited by earthling on Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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chrizow
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Re: wine.

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at home we nearly exclusively drink wines from the regions of burgundy, beaujolais, and the rhone. dollar for dollar, these pack tons of value (esp. the latter two, burgundy of course can be quite pricey but values are available). they are all very food-friendly and also are great for simply sipping. if we're doing something like grilling steaks, we may amp up to a cabernet (from CA or WA). also very into the pet-nat and "orange" wine trends - wines that are rather wild and raw, not dissimilar (in vibe if not flavor profile) to a brett or funky farmhouse ale in the beer world. right now Ca Va is doing some pet-nats by the glass, which is great. in the summer, we'll do whites (sancerre, chablis, or txakolina in particular) or rose, but we've also just sort of gravitated to light reds in summer. at least once per summer, i will grill a whole fish and we poke at it with forks and have a nice chablis, which is a fun tradition for us.

as far as having wine out in KC, we are interested in learning about more wine-forward or interesting spots for wine. Ca Va is great. we also have enjoyed the wine list at novel, which seems pretty creative compared to other places. there are other restaurants we like, for various reasons, but it is disappointing to see the wine list almost never change for months or years.

for retail, it is tough to beat Gomer's in midtown - jim the wine director is great and always has perfect recommendations. we also like underdog a lot.
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Re: wine.

Post by earthling »

I used to go wherever Clay Samuelson bartended, a sommelier under Doug Frost. He used to be at JJ's (was harmed in the explosion, is OK), reVerse, no name bar. Not sure where he is now.

Would sit at the bar and have him match a wine with eats then he'd teach me to taste if old/new world, then got to point of determining varietal but never got to determining year as he could. He taught me quite a bit, port wines and single malt whiskeys too.

Jim at Gomer's is my goto guy when looking for a wine to match a meal. He'll ask your price range and won't do you wrong.

CaVa is awesome, very unique place - Jim is part owner. We take the dog to patio. Good to hear they worked out the liquor license issues.
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beautyfromashes
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Re: wine.

Post by beautyfromashes »

Only thing I know about wine: If it's from France, it's good. You're welcome.
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Re: wine.

Post by mean »

Francais is dangerously close to Franzia when spoken aloud.
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Re: wine.

Post by bobbyhawks »

I'm always on the lookout for good restaurants for wine (and not ones that have the wine list on autopilot). There are some restaurants that keep the usual markup to a minimum and really encourage wine purchases, some that look like they don't understand math (both to the benefit and detriment of the customer), and others where the price may be higher-end but the curation is always terrific. I agree that Ca Va seems to be one of those places that gets it, both from a wine and cheese perspective (few places in town have a legit cheese plate). Another well-curated (aka, smallish) selection comes from the recently opened Antler Room. I'm a sucker for a good white from Alsace, and they had a few dry options from both sides of the border. I think I ended up with an Italian red for a later course, which was great.

As for stores, Gomers has been my family's go-to location for wine since before I was born (when my Dad didn't feel like making a weekend trip to Brown Derby in Springfield). Midtown Costco has been added to the essential mix and has great stuff come in sometimes (that gets cleaned out in seconds), and Red X can sometimes reveal some nice finds. A few of the Portuguese offerings from Costco are really the best value out there (at like $7/bottle). Lukas Wine and Spirits in Kansas is not as well curated as Gomers, but it makes up for that in volume. You can't always find someone who knows about the bottle, but if you are looking for something specific (grape/regional varietal), it is hard to beat. Since Cellar & Loft went under, Cellar Rat is really the only game downtown, and their curated selection is great. The only issue I have with Cellar Rat is that their wine club memberships make no sense for a couple. If you have the middle-tier membership and want both individuals to have access to tastings, you have to buy a second membership (minimum of $100/month). I have no idea if the $70/month membership gives you any sort of value equivalent to an extra $40/month beyond the regular membership, but a minimum $60/month for a couple is already asking a fair amount (again, no idea if the bottles are actually value-equivalent to the monthly fee). I feel like Cosentino's used to try when they first opened, but now has a pretty terrible selection of everything (okay selection of beer). I don't even look down the wine aisle anymore.

Cheese sidebar - Baetje Farms may be the best cheese in America if you like French-style cheese. It is certainly the best I've had in the region. Green Dirt is nice, but it comes (overall) in a distant second. Fervere always has some Baetje for sale and often has some for sample. Highly recommend if you want something amazing with your red wine. Bloomsdale and Miette are my favorites, but they are all good.
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chrizow
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Re: wine.

Post by chrizow »

anyone on any email listservs or follow online sources for wine? we occasionally buy from the Last Bottle listserv, which can have some great deals - and free shipping if you buy a certain amount (usu. 4 or 6 btls)
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Re: wine.

Post by taxi »

André's newish street cafe/wine bar at 50th and Main is worth checking out. They don't have an extensive selection, but great values. Their markup is low and they have good happy hour deals on booze and food, not to mention the best pastries and chocolate around.
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Re: wine.

Post by bobbyhawks »

It can't be restated enough, but the Bluestem bar area is always a great option if you are looking for an impromptu great evening with wine or cocktails. Pot Pie next door is always a good time as well and one of my favorite cozy spots. Their wine selection is solid, but if I recall they serve wine in those short stemless glasses that give like an inch from the pour line to the top of the glass and have no nose to them. I'll drink wine out of anything at someone's house or at a picnic/camping/etc., but it is a bit of a pet peeve when restaurants choose looks over function in a wine glass. I think Voltaire started out that way and has since moved on to more classic stemware. I hate that I sound pretentious, but a good nose is part of the experience of a nice wine, and it really detracts when you can't experience it. Oddly enough, the short, stemless, noseless glass is what has been served to me at most of the home-cooked meals I was able to enjoy in France. So, maybe it is more of a casual home-cooked meal vibe they are going for. I still enjoy pretty much everything about Pot Pie, though, no matter what they serve my drink in.
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chrizow
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Re: wine.

Post by chrizow »

agreed that proper stemware adds tremendously to the enjoyment of a good wine, and it's nice when restaurants or bars pour wines in proper stemware.

i can also appreciate the casual and homespun vibe of wine consumed from a tumbler (or one of those squat glasses they use in the Basque region, which we have a set of at home), although i would personally not drink a special or expensive wine from such a glass if i can help it. at home if we're just sitting around drinking basic red wine with dinner or watching TV, we'll often use tumblers just b/c stemware is easy to knock over, harder to clean, whatever. it does not bother me at a place like Potpie (which we also love), b/c the wines they serve there, while fun and drinkable, are not wines i would normally take pains to pour into proper stemware. also the short glasses go along with the general vibe of that place. i would be less enthused to drink wine from such a glass at a super upscale place with wine pairings, etc.
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chrizow
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Re: wine.

Post by chrizow »

also, let's not forget sometimes one needs a wine glass that can hold an entire bottle of wine:

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Re: wine.

Post by chrizow »

further on the subject of glassware, 715 in Lawrence used to have a "rose' tallboy" on the menu for $7.15. it was a pint glass full of rose. it was glorious. i think they increased the price after that, to maybe $9 or $10, and then last i checked it wasn't on the menu at all. i enjoyed this very much.
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Re: wine.

Post by bobbyhawks »

chrizow wrote:also, let's not forget sometimes one needs a wine glass that can hold an entire bottle of wine:

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Ha. One of my Dad's friends poured an entire bottle of cheap white zin into one of these glasses for his birthday as a joke, and it was pretty hilarious. It really doesn't look like it will all fit at first.
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Re: wine.

Post by chingon »

Porron or bust.
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chrizow
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Re: wine.

Post by chrizow »

bobbyhawks wrote:Another well-curated (aka, smallish) selection comes from the recently opened Antler Room. I'm a sucker for a good white from Alsace, and they had a few dry options from both sides of the border. I think I ended up with an Italian red for a later course, which was great.
we tried Antler Room for the first time last night, and enjoyed the wine selection as well. they apparently open magnums of interesting wines on mondays - last night they were pouring a nice 08 Barolo and we loved it. the food did not hit the target as much as we hoped, but we enjoyed the place overall and will return.
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Re: wine.

Post by earthling »

The Antler Room menu looks like they are trying to unnecessarily reinvent the wheel with some overboard ideas but I'm willing to give it a shot when I get back to KC.
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Re: wine.

Post by bobbyhawks »

earthling wrote:The Antler Room menu looks like they are trying to unnecessarily reinvent the wheel with some overboard ideas but I'm willing to give it a shot when I get back to KC.
Huh. I 've had two really great experiences there. I didn't get the feeling they were trying to reinvent the wheel so much as they are just inventive and cutting edge in a great way. It isn't far from what places like Novel, the Rieger, or Extra Virgin have been doing as far as trying to be innovative yet respectful of classic flavors goes. There are some really common things on the menu (or things that every other new restaurant also does), like chicken liver mousse and crudo. They have hangar steak with pesto and rabbit with root vegetables. It's not like they are trying to serve you a steak in powder form that you snort at the table.
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Re: wine.

Post by smh »

Uh, then what was that I snorted?
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