BBQ WARS!

[chingon]

Though I've never had it, I know people who swear by Quicks in Armordale or Rosedale. Ditto Guy and Mae's in Williamsburg, Kansas. In my experience Big T's is as good as Gates, by which I mean edible. Smokestack on Wornall is worthless. I haven't eaten at Rosedale in so long I don't remember it except being nonplussed. BB's has pretty decent bbq and a really fun atmosphere, if you don't mind a lot of white man's overbite and drunk, old-leather ladies. For all the talk of OK Joes being "JoCo bbq", Haywards pretty much takes that prize in the post-Masterpeice era.  

Smoke N Guns has the absolute best burnt ends in KC, and thus, the world, but they cost too much and the portions are embarassingly stingy. I haven't ever had anything else there, but really, everyting besides the burnt end is pretty much leftovers to me.

Also, supposedly all the real locals go to this place in gas station in, like, the really bad ghetto part of KC.

[GRID]

Though I've never had it, I know people who swear by Quicks in Armordale or Rosedale. Ditto Guy and Mae's in Williamsburg, Kansas. In my experience Big T's is as good as Gates, by which I mean edible. Smokestack on Wornall is worthless. I haven't eaten at Rosedale in so long I don't remember it except being nonplussed. BB's has pretty decent bbq and a really fun atmosphere, if you don't mind a lot of white man's overbite and drunk, old-leather ladies. For all the talk of OK Joes being "JoCo bbq", Haywards pretty much takes that prize in the post-Masterpeice era.  

Smoke N Guns has the absolute best burnt ends in KC, and thus, the world, but they cost too much and the portions are embarassingly stingy. I haven't ever had anything else there, but really, everyting besides the burnt end is pretty much leftovers to me.

Also, supposedly all the real locals go to this place in gas station in, like, the really bad ghetto part of KC.

Haywards is awesome (for sit down casual dining bbq).  They should expand to the P&L District and give Jack Stack some competition.

[ignatius]

OK Joes = near perfection

At least with pulled pork.  Ribs are sometimes great sometimes not. Not crazy about any other items.  The potato salad is not bad, dill based.  My one complaint is the excessively salty sauces.

They do BBQ well by definition.. slow cooked meat with no shortcuts.  Most places take shortcuts.  I also like Brody's up in Smithville - is prepared well by definition but not always consistent.

The Joes haters seem to be because of the name or have never attempted to properly do BBQ - s l o w l y.  I've been trying lots of other BBQ places recently (Danny's, Gates, Winslows, JackStack, etc).  They have the texture and taste of quickly grilled meat, not slowly BBQd.  The others are passable, but not what I'd call BBQ by definition.   Thai and BBQ might be the two most difficult to properly prepare economically and pull off in a restaurant as it takes time and/or lots of prep work.

Unlike other BBQ cultures, what's great about KC is that there is no one style. It's all over the place - preparation and types of sauces and we will BBQ anything.  The downside is that means one person may only like 25% of places.

[KCPowercat]

Who here is a Joes hater?  They are just reaching overrated status in some opinions.

[chrizow]

[chingon]

Just got backfrom Quick's on SW BLVD. I hereby vow off all bbq I've already had until I've eaten at every bbq restaurant in the metro. Time to branch out a bit.

I don't ever judge on 1 meal alone, but after a 1/2 lb burnt ends and a short end, I prepared to give Quicks a B/B+. Ribs were top 5. Very piquant smoke, very light rub.

As an aside: the competition bbq circuit, epsecially KCBS, is really fucking up the vernacular. I forgot how good a rib tastes when it's not buried in an 1/8" of salt/sugar rub. And if braising shit in foil and calling it bbq isn't bad enough for you, the trend of injecting meat with solution is the grossest thing I can think of...

[mean]

And if braising shit in foil and calling it bbq isn't bad enough for you, the trend of injecting meat with solution is the grossest thing I can think of...

Ugh... the cafeteria in my workplace serves "bbq" that is just meat braised in liquid smoke. Awful.

Agree on injections, too. That's what I call fail-b-cue.

[chingon]

OK Joes = near perfection


They do BBQ well by definition.. slow cooked meat with no shortcuts.  Most places take shortcuts.  I also like Brody's up in Smithville - is prepared well by definition but not always consistent.

Well, they use liqud smoke in their sauce, which is not only an abominabl shortcut, but pretty much is the sole flaw of the "Night of the Living Dead" sauce, but its a pretty fucking big flaw.

And the last times I had both brisket and ribs there, both had clearly been steamed. Like, laid-on-a-steam-plate steamed, not just Texas crutched (which I know Jeff Stehney has always advocated). I can't think of a bigger or more pernicious shortcut than steaming meat except maybe parboiling, and something about the last OJ's rack I got made me suspicious that perhaps they'd "pretreated".

[chingon]

Agree on injections, too. That's what I call fail-b-cue.

It's what I call "ham". Bad industrial ham.

[KCPowercat]

You have to inject at the royal to have any chance. Sad but true.

[mean]

Seriously? Then they need new judges. Injections are for Famous Dave's.

[brewcrew1000]

Well, they use liqud smoke in their sauce, which is not only an abominabl shortcut, but pretty much is the sole flaw of the "Night of the Living Dead" sauce, but its a pretty fucking big flaw.

Isn't sauce a shortcut in general, i mean if you go to Texas, most old school places don't even serve BBQ sauce

[ignatius]

yes, i agree sauce in itself can be considered a shortcut to cover the meat.  bbq prepared well with right rubs doesn't really need a sauce - depends on the type of bbq.

i don't use joe's sauce because it's too salty.  the ribs and pulled pork don't really need it.

[mean]

Good BBQ never needs sauce, but a good sauce (Bryant's!) in moderation can always complement good BBQ.

[chingon]

Isn't sauce a shortcut in general, i mean if you go to Texas, most old school places don't even serve BBQ sauce

1. Not true. Most places, even old school places, in Texas do have sauce now, even in the hill country, to say nothing of East Texas and large cities. I think this used to be true in central Texas, but then Texans went to other places and were like "shit, our bbq isn't that good, it usually kind of tastes like pot roast, we better put something on it that we can lick off our fingers".

2. What is traditional or not in BBQ is not now, never has been, and never will be determined by how they do it in Texas. That's merely one school of bbq, not the rulebook.

[bobbyhawks]

I get why purists say that good BBQ shouldn't have sauce, but would you tell a Michelin star chef to take his steak back because it has Bearnaise on it?  Obviously, these things are on different levels, but if ribs taste better with sauce, who cares if they still taste good without it?  Steak, bbq, fish, etc...  All of these things, when cooked to perfection, should be able to stand alone, with little seasoning.  I love me some BBQ sauce, so I'm sure that I am biased, but to me, good BBQ sauce on good BBQ is more akin to Bearnaise on steak than it is to A1 covering up an overcooked brickette of steak.  Great that it can stand alone, but more delicious when combined with the sauce.

[aknowledgeableperson]

I get why purists say that good BBQ shouldn't have sauce,

Just curious, wouldn't a place that just smoked the meat, with some rub, without adding a sauce be just a smoked meat place?  Whereas, if the place not only smoked the meat, with some rub, but added sauce then be a BBQ joint?
Years ago, down at the lake the guys would smoke meat using a homemade smoker.  Depending on the holiday the meat would either be brisket or beef ribs.  No sauce was used.  If you wanted sauce when you ate the meat you would BYOB.

[mean]

2. What is traditional or not in BBQ is not now, never has been, and never will be determined by how they do it in Texas. That's merely one school of bbq, not the rulebook.

I think it may be more specifically a Lockhart-area thing.

Just curious, wouldn't a place that just smoked the meat, with some rub, without adding a sauce be just a smoked meat place?

No. The process of smoking meat with wood smoke is barbecuing. The resultant product is called barbecue, whether you have sauce or not.

[KCMax]

My impression was that other than KC, most other places don't put sauce on BBQ. In Carolina, its considered sacrilege to put anything more than vinegar on their pulled pork. KC specifically is known for its BBQ sauces, but BBQ does not require sauce.

[chingon]

My impression was that other than KC, most other places don't put sauce on BBQ. In Carolina, its considered sacrilege to put anything more than vinegar on their pulled pork. .

Well, I've had a lot of bbq in every "bbq mecca region" and great deal of bbq elsewhere and I have been served already sauced bbq in all except central texas, including pulled pork sandwiches in the Carolinas (a region which itself has 3 different styles of sauce, one mostly vinegar and pepper, but also a mustard and tomato based sauce as well as a ketchup and vinegar abomination) and ribs in Memphis. In all 4 big hotspots I have seen KC-style sauces widely available and in common usage.

I think most of those old monolithic bbq traditions, like "Carolina=whole hog" have faded, or have been watered down quite a bit by American mobility, communications, and food porn. The distinctions now seem to be more of the "quaint relic" variety than the real structural or cultural institutions they apparently used to be. It's not like the beef you get in KC is any fresher than beef elsewhere, or like Texans are actually bbq rangey steers off the Chisolm trail. Anymore, I think its a kind of an antiquated mythology, like the idea that the seafood you get in a restaurant is fresher the closer you are to the ocean.