OFFICIAL: The Legends at Village West

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OFFICIAL: The Legends at Village West

Post by TheDude » Tue Sep 16, 2003 3:41 pm

Several of the tenants mentioned are already slated for the Speedway, including a pretty solid rumour that HardRock is going to build a signature building as part of the RED development.  It's hard for Downtown to compete w/ free land in WestWyDot.
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Post by KCPowercat » Tue Sep 16, 2003 3:48 pm

Hmmmm, Hard Rock Cafe rumor #1832 for KC??? Isn't really Hard Rock's way to build in the burbs is it? Although I could see a "NASCAR Cafe" or whatever theme restaurant that is called going out there.

If HRC goes to the speedway, that would be a big time fish to land for KCK.
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Post by TheDude » Tue Sep 16, 2003 4:02 pm

agreed; having visited several HR's throughout the country, they typically locate in vibrant, active downtowns, but also locate in major tourist/entertainment districts. HR has been wanting to tap into the KC market for a long time (ie, Power and Light) and if they have the opportunity for free land/rent, what's the risk? Downtown KCMO is far from providing the destination economics to attract them there, and the Plaza does not have the space. Further, the thousands of mindless drones shopping at Cabelas/Furniture mart would be lined up around the corner to eat an elvis burger and wash it down with a 32oz souvenir glass of miller lite.

Union Station would be a perfect location for a large scale HR or House of Blues, but given that Hall Foundation (aka Crown Center) $$ is keeping it afloat, you won't see any signifianct retail in Union Station any time soon--CC does not need or want the competition.
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Post by KCPowercat » Tue Sep 16, 2003 4:06 pm

great rumor anyways.....Plaza has denied HRC many times....of course that was before Highwoods took over.

I can see a theme restaurant going out there just not HRC....but you are right, free land is hard to pass up.

I'm not a fan of HRC so even all the positives they bring, I wouldn't mind them staying out of a new downtown entertainment district. I'd rather see a House of Blues, Gameworks, Espnzone type of thing....little more exclusive.
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Post by trailerkid » Tue Sep 16, 2003 4:07 pm

Hard Rock goes perfectly in line with what West WyCo is trying to do....tourism district. From what I understand about Legends...it is planned to be a destination mall simlilar to the Millls or Block E in Minneapolis with stuff like Rainforest Cafe, ESPN Zone, Alcatraz Brewery, etc. These type of tenants keep up with the identity that they are building with Cabela's, NFM, the Speedway, Great Wolf, etc.

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Post by KCPowercat » Tue Sep 16, 2003 4:10 pm

Mills type retailers, yes.....HRC, ESPNZone are not Mills type retailers that I've seen.
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Post by KCPowercat » Tue Sep 16, 2003 4:13 pm

OK, maybe I should do a little research, HRC is in the sawgrass mills mall in Ft. Lauderdale.....but I believe that is their anchor store.
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Post by trailerkid » Tue Sep 16, 2003 4:35 pm

The major question to asked is how RED will play the Legends. The Mills route combines entertainment retail (X Game Skatepark, Virgin, Jillians, Theaters) with megastore outlets (Nordstrom Rack, Burtlington Coat, Off 5th) and everybody else who wants in (Aeropostale, Journeys, Hot Topic). This concept seemed to be what the Great Mall failed at doing.

Another possibility would be an entertainment only structured focus, but this would leave the place pretty empty during many weekday hours plus the sheer size of 1,000,000 sq. feet is too much entertainment to fill.

St. Louis Mills has announced a sport-themed area of it new mall the will feature an XGames skatepark, an ice rink, a Blues practice area, and a Nascar Speedpark. I have a little feeling we'll be hearing about the Nascar Speedpark at the Legends in the future.

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Post by StL_Dan » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:31 pm

trailerkid wrote:St. Louis Mills has announced a sport-themed area of it new mall the will feature an XGames skatepark, an ice rink, a Blues practice area, and a Nascar Speedpark. I have a little feeling we'll be hearing about the Nascar Speedpark at the Legends in the future.


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Post by QueSi2Opie » Wed Sep 17, 2003 11:07 am

I know most of you are anti-HRC, but it would be a big loss for KCMO if all these urban entertainment district restaurants/retailers go out to the Speedway instead of downtown. Who's to say Virgin, ESPNZone, etc. won't follow them out West? Will they want two stores in a metro of only 1.8 million? Nope...
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Post by KCPowercat » Wed Sep 17, 2003 11:11 am

Que, agreed, it would be a loss....now do we really expect all these retailers to break from what they do in every other city in the country? There is an urban entertainment district being built up in KCMO backed by a national developer in Cordish, let's not just write off the new area and think all these urban retailers are going to flock to suburban KCK.....it ain't happening.
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Post by QueSi2Opie » Wed Sep 17, 2003 11:26 am

KC wrote:Que, agreed, it would be a loss....now do we really expect all these retailers to break from what they do in every other city in the country? There is an urban entertainment district being built up in KCMO backed by a national developer in Cordish, let's not just write off the new area and think all these urban retailers are going to flock to suburban KCK.....it ain't happening.


If HRC breaks away to a district that recieves tons of visitors, why won't these other retailers? After all, downtown KCMO doesn't exactly recieve a ton of visitors, ey? It's all about gettin' the ball rollin'...hopefully Barnes, Cordish and Co. can get it rollin' a bit faster before they are left in the dust with only tumbleweeds rolling through downtown.
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Post by dangerboy » Wed Sep 17, 2003 11:53 am

Hard Rock, etc. seem to usually be near other bars and clubs, in areas with pedestrian traffic and proximity to convention centers and hotels. Village West doesn't really seem to have many of those characteristics. Considering that there are Hard Rocks in such non-hip downtowns as Houston, Phoenix, and St. Louis - we shouldn't bet against our Downtown yet.

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Post by KCPowercat » Wed Sep 17, 2003 12:22 pm

Que...downtown KC doesn't have many visitors? Come on...just the convention center alone pulls more people in than any big box retailer and racetrack can do.
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Post by QueSi2Opie » Wed Sep 17, 2003 8:40 pm

dangerboy wrote:Considering that there are Hard Rocks in such non-hip downtowns as Houston, Phoenix, and St. Louis - we shouldn't bet against our Downtown yet.


What would you consider hip? Boarded up windows and empty streets? Hip for Goths...
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Post by QueSi2Opie » Wed Sep 17, 2003 8:41 pm

KC wrote:Que...downtown KC doesn't have many visitors? Come on...just the convention center alone pulls more people in than any big box retailer and racetrack can do.


Give me those numbers?
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Post by KCPowercat » Wed Sep 17, 2003 8:51 pm

I'm not even sure the CVB could come up with numbers drawn to the convention center itself....but realistically it's probably not as much as say Cabela's drew last year....of course Ameristar is the #1 tourist attraction in KC (at least last year by attendance) and I don't see a Hard Rock Cafe and ESPNzone popping up around there.

These businesses don't go to suburban strip centers anywhere in the country, all of a sudden you think they are going to change up and go to one of the poorest suburbs in the country?
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Post by QueSi2Opie » Wed Sep 17, 2003 8:58 pm

KC wrote:I'm not even sure the CVB could come up with numbers drawn to the convention center itself....but realistically it's probably not as much as say Cabela's drew last year....of course Ameristar is the #1 tourist attraction in KC (at least last year by attendance) and I don't see a Hard Rock Cafe and ESPNzone popping up around there.

These businesses don't go to suburban strip centers anywhere in the country, all of a sudden you think they are going to change up and go to one of the poorest suburbs in the country?


Actually, I don't think they'll go to the Legends. I see Hard Rock goin' downtown after the mayor proposes the arena district this Friday.
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Post by KCPowercat » Wed Sep 17, 2003 10:21 pm

calling the mayor's shot?
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Post by dangerboy » Wed Sep 17, 2003 10:35 pm

So what's with the Hard Rock obsession? That brand has become so common that it will probably be anticlimatic if we get one. If we are playing the national franchise game I'd like to see rarer names like Virgin Megastore, GameWorks, or even Metreon.

Plus some big local flavor - how about a Boulevard brewpub, a big wild west saloon theme restaurant, a flagship Gates or Masterpiece, etc. Hell, screw Hard Rock Cafe - let's create a Jazz and Blues Cafe.

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