Downtown Mission/ The Gateway

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Re: Downtown Mission/ The Gateway

Postby Karin » Mon Sep 06, 2004 8:49 pm

Trailerkid---You're probably right.

Your ideas of a mini Zona Rosa type development would be the best option, especially if Dillard's is no longer interested.
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Re: Downtown Mission/ The Gateway

Postby KC0KEK » Mon Sep 06, 2004 9:11 pm

A Zona Rosa-style development was the original game plan for the former Venture/Price Chopper shopping center a mile or so away in Roeland Park, but that was dropped in favor of a jazzed-up strip mall. I don't remember the reason, but I think that the change had to do with difficulty attracting the types of tenants necessary for that type of project. So my first question would be, why would it fly on the Mission Center Mall site?

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Re: Downtown Mission/ The Gateway

Postby trailerkid » Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:10 pm

KC0KEK wrote:So my first question would be, why would it fly on the Mission Center Mall site?

1. This is a better location (easy access off of 35, Shawnee Mission Parkway is a major route from KS burbs to the Plaza, closer to Mission Hills area and upscale housing)

2. Downtown Mission is already a real city center area and this would act as a catalyst and expansion of that area. It would not be an isolated new urban center, but just an expansion of an existing pedestrian area.

3. There are a number of tenants who cannot get in on the Plaza, but who want to serve the demos aroung the Plaza and NE Jo Co 'burbs...this would give them that opportunity.

What does a Roeland Park failure have to do with this site? Copaken dropped plans for a mall in So Jo Co and the very same land was picked up and is now being developed...anything can happen with development and failures by one group doesn't mean much.

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Re: Downtown Mission/ The Gateway

Postby KC0KEK » Tue Sep 07, 2004 6:48 am

trailerkid wrote:
KC0KEK wrote:So my first question would be, why would it fly on the Mission Center Mall site?

1. This is a better location (easy access off of 35, Shawnee Mission Parkway is a major route from KS burbs to the Plaza, closer to Mission Hills area and upscale housing)

2. Downtown Mission is already a real city center area and this would act as a catalyst and expansion of that area. It would not be an isolated new urban center, but just an expansion of an existing pedestrian area.

3. There are a number of tenants who cannot get in on the Plaza, but who want to serve the demos aroung the Plaza and NE Jo Co 'burbs...this would give them that opportunity.

What does a Roeland Park failure have to do with this site? Copaken dropped plans for a mall in So Jo Co and the very same land was picked up and is now being developed...anything can happen with development and failures by one group doesn't mean much.


If you're talking about replacement for the Walk at High Pointe, I'll believe that when its doors open.

I agree with most of your three points, but the RP site has the advantage of not being adjacent to Rock Creek. As Scanlon noted, "It's a tough site" because it's prone to flooding. So Mission and/or the developer would have to address that issue, which could be costly. Whether that's a major barrier is tough to say.

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Re: Downtown Mission/ The Gateway

Postby phxcat » Tue Sep 07, 2004 11:07 pm

This would actually be a phenominal spot for new urbanism- Places like ZR and Lenexa Town Center, no matter how cool they are, will stick out like a sore thumb. New Urbanism in Mission, or Parkville, or places like that (I was actually thinking they should try it in Shawnee too, as part of the downtown revitalization) would be incredibly cool- and would become true models of new urbanism.

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Re: Downtown Mission/ The Gateway

Postby ComandanteCero » Tue Sep 07, 2004 11:15 pm

KC design center mentions a proposed project in a mall in Shawnee

http://www.kcdesigncenter.org/shawnee.html

Shawnee New Urbanism

KSU LAR 744/LAR703, Fall 2003

Led by Professor Stephanie A. Rolley and Assistant Professor Melanie Klein, Kansas State architecture students are assisting the City of Shawnee, Kansas by exploring the potential for New Urbanist community design at a former regional mall site in Johnson County.

After researching established New Urban communities, talking with experts in the field, and interacting with public officials and local planners, the students prepared design concepts for the 300-acre site. Their master plan proposals emphasize transit access, building massing, and pedestrian-scaled environments.

The semester's work will be documented in an upcoming KCDC publication.


i don't know if they just did recommendations or were actually thinking of going ahead with it. Did anyone pick up the issue covering the project? either way, someone should get the Kansas Design Center on the Downtown Mission case!!!
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Re: Downtown Mission/ The Gateway

Postby Tosspot » Thu Sep 16, 2004 6:46 pm

I read in the Star that part of Mission's master plan includes some sort of "pedestrian-friendly, mixed use community" or some such thing. Sounds like aspirations towards New Urbanism, and if that's the case, I'm all for it. Tear down that silly mall and put up a New Urbanist development on that site.

Does anyone know more about Mission's long-term plans are?
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Re: Downtown Mission/ The Gateway

Postby KC0KEK » Wed Apr 27, 2005 6:59 am

www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascitystar/news/local/states/kansas/counties/johnson_county/11495870.htm

Some interesting ideas -- and one awful one: "Johnson Drive would be split into two one-way streets with a roundabout at the intersection of Johnson Drive and Nall Avenue. The street realignment would help slow down traffic, create more pedestrian opportunities and provide more frontage for businesses, said Martin Rivarola, the city's director of community development."

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Re: Downtown Mission/ The Gateway

Postby DiggityDawg » Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:51 am

Yikes...


It'll slow down traffic, all right...because no one will be using Johnson Drive if they do that!  :x

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Re: Downtown Mission/ The Gateway

Postby KCMax » Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:57 am

I just moved from DC and the worst thing about DC is all the freakin roundabouts. They are retarded and a recipe for accidents.
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Re: Downtown Mission/ The Gateway

Postby staubio » Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:32 am

DiggityDawg wrote:Yikes...


It'll slow down traffic, all right...because no one will be using Johnson Drive if they do that!  :x


Johnson Drive isn't much of a high speed corridor through downtown Mission anyway, and splitting the road won't slow it down much.  I don't see this making Johnson Drive more unattractive to drivers -- it just seems like it would be far more attractive to pedestrians and traditional Main Street type business.

I hope Mission builds their "Riverwalk" and seizes the opportunity to enhance density in this great inner-ring burb.

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Re: Downtown Mission/ The Gateway

Postby KCK » Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:34 am

Round a bouts only are good in primarily residential areas, for example the round a bout in Westheight in KCK. People used to cut through that area as a shortcut, but with it in place, people now avoid the area, and it has become a neighborhood again without a whole bunch of cut through traffic.
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Re: Downtown Mission/ The Gateway

Postby Thrillcekr » Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:42 pm

One way streets suck.

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Re: Downtown Mission/ The Gateway

Postby Tosspot » Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:55 pm

Thrillcekr wrote:One way streets suck.


They're easier to jaywalk on if you're a pedestrian.. I would know as I do it all the time. Though in the realm of urbanetics and planning theory, they are to be discouraged, as supposedly storefront businesses are more apt to fail on one-way streets, as only uni-directional transport takes place, thus there is less opportunity for a busines to be visible to would-be patrons.
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Re: Downtown Mission/ The Gateway

Postby thedream » Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:08 pm

Everyone is so annoying stop complaning about traffic it is because of that metality that this entire metro sucks when it comes to urban the whole point of urban is people friendly walking.

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Re: Downtown Mission/ The Gateway

Postby Tosspot » Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:32 pm

thedream wrote:Everyone is so annoying stop complaning about traffic it is because of that metality that this entire metro sucks when it comes to urban the whole point of urban is people friendly walking.


Uh, if you read the posts in this thread numbnuts, you'll see that everyone is deploring the future traffic over-engineering that destroys walkability.

But anyway, if Mission truly wants to conduce a walkable, pedestrian environment, they'll firebomb all of the shit west of Lamar, abolish their zoning laws, and bring in New Urbanist designers.
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Re: Downtown Mission/ The Gateway

Postby KCMax » Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:42 am

[i]Everyone is so annoying stop complaning about traffic it is because of that metality that this entire metro sucks when it comes to urban the whole point of urban is people friendly walking.[.i]

But where would we park?  :lol:
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Re: Downtown Mission/ The Gateway

Postby staubio » Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:50 pm

Tosspot wrote:Uh, if you read the posts in this thread numbnuts, you'll see that everyone is deploring the future traffic over-engineering that destroys walkability.

But anyway, if Mission truly wants to conduce a walkable, pedestrian environment, they'll firebomb all of the shit west of Lamar, abolish their zoning laws, and bring in New Urbanist designers.


No, there were people complaining that Johnson Drive would be unusable and less car-friendly, too.

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Re: Downtown Mission/ The Gateway

Postby thedream » Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:07 pm

Thats what I was responding to thank you

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Re: Downtown Mission/ The Gateway

Postby KC0KEK » Thu May 05, 2005 10:24 am

Mission City Council awash in creek redevelopment

By: Nathan Dayani, Staff Writer April 28, 2005

Mayor Laura McConwell met with a handful of property and business owners Tuesday and proposed four options to reduce flooding along Rock Creek, which runs just south of Mission's downtown business district. The options were prepared for presentation to the Mission City Council on Wednesday.
 
"This is kind of a turning point for Mission," Councilman Phil Perry said.

All options would remove the district from the 100-year flood plain. The plain encompasses about $50 million worth of commercial property.

Two options would take advantage of the creek as a natural amenity conducive to attracting patrons to Mission's downtown business district, an important but struggling cash source for the small city.

"I don't think you'd find anything like it in a first-ring suburb like ours," Perry said.

Public costs of the four options range from $12.8 million to $19.2 million. Private funding is estimated to range from $12.9 million to $15.1 million. Mission officials would like to split public costs between city, county and federal governments.

City leaders could also do nothing, but agree that approach would lead to blight and cost the city more in the long run. FEMA regulations prohibit substantial redevelopment efforts in a 100-year flood plain.

Following is an overview of the four proposed redevelopment options.

* Enclose the creek with large, underground box culverts similar to those used under Mission Center Mall, with public costs at $13.5 million and private costs at $12.9 million.

* Create an open concrete channel. Public costs: $12.8 million; private costs, $12.9 million.

* Establish a 20-year "downtown redevelopment strategy" in which an open, low-flow channel would divert water into box culverts in the eastern, downstream portion of the creek. Green space and possible walking trails would flank the channel. Also, Johnson Drive would be changed to redirect traffic close to the creek and surrounding business district. Public costs: $19.2 million; private costs, $13.9 million.

* Establish a 20-year "sustainable redevelopment strategy" that would substantially widen and return the creek to a natural, perennial state with more green space than the previous option. The creek could be flanked by a boardwalk. Public costs: $17.2 million, private costs, $15.1 million.

"We have a golden opportunity here," said Perry, who chairs the city's redevelopment task force. "Mission's always had what other cities are trying to create: a downtown Main Street."

He and Martin Rivarola, community development officer, said residents, business owners and developers could play an important role in helping the city understand which options the community would support.

The city plans to present the options at a public forum at 7 p.m. Monday, May 9 at the Sylvester Powell Jr. Community Center, 6200 Martway. A full report of the options is available on the city's Web site, www.missionks.org.

New flood maps submitted to the Mission City Council in January 2004 indicate the 100-year flood plain includes $50 million worth of commercial property - three times larger than previous estimates. The change meant the city faced a two-fold task: protect the surrounding 50-year-old business district from flooding while promoting redevelopment. Possible financial incentives could help reinforce this relationship.

In the past two years, the Kansas Legislature has passed bills to allow cities such as Mission to use tax incentives to fund storm water improvements. The incentives are tax-increment financing districts where incremental property values are used to subsidize improvements to public goods, and transportation-development districts where an extra sales tax could be levied. City officials said they hope public funding to reduce flooding along Rock Creek would beget private funding conducive to redevelopment.

Change of venue

McConwell, city staff and council members have traveled in the past year to other downtown districts throughout the country, including Denver, to gain insight about how to promote redevelopment. Many of these districts featured bodies of water conducive to attracting patrons.

"Water works wonders in drawing people to an area," Perry said.

Indeed, a city report cites several examples in which waterways and surrounding green space were featured to help encourage redevelopment. Local examples include Lenexa and the highly touted new-urbanism Zona Rosa district of Kansas City, Mo. Other examples include riverfront improvements in Detroit, St. Paul, and Milwaukee.

With such examples in mind, Rivarola and Perry are most upbeat about the two proposed options that would incorporate a waterway as a major feature of the downtown business district. Although the two other, more inexpensive options also would promote redevelopment by removing the district from the flood plain, they are unlikely to bolster patronage as well as the two waterway solutions.

"I hate to see us take the cheapest route just because it's the cheapest route," Perry said. "That's not the right answer."

A city staff report cites advantages and disadvantages to each of the four proposed options. The enclosed concrete channel would allow erecting buildings close to the creek, but "the box is not adaptable once built" and has a limited life-expectancy, according to the report.

The open channel, the most inexpensive of the four options, could include some recreation components and perhaps permit parking garages to be built over it. Rivarola said the option lacks a complementary aesthetic and would require fencing because the channel would be dangerous during a storm. The report also states the channel could diminish wildlife living near the creek but could increase sewer inhabitants such as rats and possums.

The two other options would feature green ways that could be aesthetically pleasing, and clean and absorb storm water, according to the report. The report states the city would incur new costs as a steward of the green way, and that "the community may be divided on any idea of substantial change." Another potential drawback is the options would require more space, in part to widen the creek, which could force the city to purchase more property for the project and potentially lose some property and sales tax revenues.

The sustainable redevelopment strategy has drawbacks, Rivarola said.

"It takes some area away from being developable ground," he said.

Perry said additional engineering and environmental studies might be needed before the city could implement either of the two green options. He said some engineers think Rock Creek is reactive, meaning that water flows through only during storms, whereas some geologists think the creek would be perennial if returned to a more natural state.

Rivarola said all redevelopment options could be changed. Now, he said, city officials can take a step back and let the community discuss Mission's future. Following that discussion, the City Council could formally endorse one or a combination of options as soon as August.

Perry said downtown business owners are getting excited about redevelopment. They no longer ask if the city will do anything to solve flooding and increase property values, he said, now they ask when.

At the presentation Tuesday, Kim Blake, owner of All Weather Window and Door on Johnson Drive, agreed.

"The redevelopment options are extremely important," Blake said.


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