KCRag Forum

I thought this would have gotten a more recent post. Huh. At any rate...

$305 million plan for Olathe Great Mall site envisions a mixed-use sports destination

Developers envision a $305 million plan for the site of the razed Great Mall of the Great Plains in Olathe.

An application to use Kansas STAR bonds to finance the project proposes a mixed-use project with a heavy emphasis on sports and fitness.

It would also incorporate entertainment venues, restaurants, retail space, office and medical office space, hotels, residential units, and public spaces that could draw nearly 1.8 million visitors a year to the underused site at Interstate 35 and 151st Street.

The redevelopment could include a 4,000-5,000 seat arena and a community ice sheet for youth hockey tournaments and practice, interactive golf, and rock climbing.

It all seems pretty pie-in-the-sky at the moment.

A new community ice rink? SWEET. Bring it!

Sani wrote:I thought this would have gotten a more recent post. Huh. At any rate...

Us Kansans like to throw good money after bad. This is not STAR bond worthy.

If this area could drive 1.8 million people annually the mall would still be open.

Sky Golf? Costco or Sam's Club? Sprouts or Fresh Thyme Market? Sun Fresh or Albertsons or Ramey Price Cutter? Meijer? Pizza Ranch? McCalister's Deli? Here Today? Dunham Sports? Milio's Sandwich Shop? like at Ward Parkway Shops a Restaurant District? A Sports Arena?

I see some things never change about Kansas. They are going after STAR bonds to build this redevelopment making sure it will be a "tourist destination". FYI, The Great Mall was highly subsidized and was supposed bring in people from all over the midwest by the bus load too. Now it's a field again.

JoCo is still the most corporate welfare, ridiculously subsidized (by the state, not just local) high growth suburban area I have seen anywhere in the country. LOL.

GRID wrote:I see some things never change about Kansas. They are going after STAR bonds to build this redevelopment making sure it will be a "tourist destination". FYI, The Great Mall was highly subsidized and was supposed bring in people from all over the midwest by the bus load too. Now it's a field again.

JoCo is still the most corporate welfare, ridiculously subsidized (by the state, not just local) high growth suburban area I have seen anywhere in the country. LOL.

And since then 135th has built up a ton of retail. It's in a much more competitive market than before.

flyingember wrote:

GRID wrote:I see some things never change about Kansas. They are going after STAR bonds to build this redevelopment making sure it will be a "tourist destination". FYI, The Great Mall was highly subsidized and was supposed bring in people from all over the midwest by the bus load too. Now it's a field again.

JoCo is still the most corporate welfare, ridiculously subsidized (by the state, not just local) high growth suburban area I have seen anywhere in the country. LOL.

And since then 135th has built up a ton of retail. It's in a much more competitive market than before.

And it's all super subsidized. BlueHawk is getting star bonds, local tifs, transportation sales tax etc. Same with Prairie Fire. Corbin Park has been getting money right and left for years and is still struggling to build out.

"development" in Johnson County, KS is still fake as ever. Even though it's supposed to be this vibrant affluent economy, it's more subsidized than almost anyplace in the country that I know of, including urban areas where subsidies are actually needed and warranted. When you add in all the job poaching they have done from KCMO over the years with insane PEAK incentives (and yet today they produce very few new net jobs to the metro) it's actually comical that people actually think JoCo has a strong economy and is a desirable place for companies to relocate to.

flyingember wrote:

GRID wrote:I see some things never change about Kansas. They are going after STAR bonds to build this redevelopment making sure it will be a "tourist destination". FYI, The Great Mall was highly subsidized and was supposed bring in people from all over the midwest by the bus load too. Now it's a field again.

JoCo is still the most corporate welfare, ridiculously subsidized (by the state, not just local) high growth suburban area I have seen anywhere in the country. LOL.

And since then 135th has built up a ton of retail. It's in a much more competitive market than before.

With a few exceptions, I don't think retail should ever be subsidized with incentives. First of all, if the market was there, retail would be there. Kansas is just robbing Peter (who lives elsewhere in Wyandotte or Johnson County) to pay Paul. As you say, it's already very competitive in southern Johnson County so any new jobs created by retail incentives will most likely lead to job losses elsewhere in the Kansas burbs (probably unsubsidized jobs). One exception might be something like the P&L District where something was necessary to augment the then nascent but growing urban lifestyle and to give instant life to one of the more visible and at the time embarrassing parts of the city. I'm all for subsidizing actual jobs for people with careers that pay well etc... Bring jobs downtown and you bring people downtown to live and retail and entertainment will follow. Subsidizing retail just creates more competition for the same finite number of retail spendable dollars and the only surety is that there will be as many losers as there are winners.

GRID wrote:I see some things never change about Kansas. They are going after STAR bonds to build this redevelopment making sure it will be a "tourist destination". FYI, The Great Mall was highly subsidized and was supposed bring in people from all over the midwest by the bus load too. Now it's a field again.

JoCo is still the most corporate welfare, ridiculously subsidized (by the state, not just local) high growth suburban area I have seen anywhere in the country. LOL.

Cite your source for the mall having been heavily subsidized. As I recall, the owner wanted help after Legends was built though a STAR Bond and was denied then, and then they asked again around the middle of the recession when CBL threatened to let Oak Park Mall rot without subsidies. I approved of the latter because when you let a huge mall get dated you end up with Metro North and what’s starting to happen at Independence Center.

I can't believe they are still designing retail buildings in projects like this without putting at least two floors of apartments on top of the buildings.

I will give them credit for putting some apartments on the edge of the project. Still, have developers and urban planners not learned any lessons? You need to also place housing above retail. It is especially needed for seniors who might no longer drive. They don't want to walk through a sea of surface parking to go shopping. Restaurants and hair salons do better when they have on-site housing. Seniors need to be near grocery and drug stores--their two primary reasons to regularly leave their apartment. The largest generation in US history is aging--and retired, and many are trapped in suburban single family houses when they stop driving. They need mixed use projects like this to offer the housing they need, if and when they downsize.

I wouldn't be surprised if this project will be struggling again in 20 years. What do we do then? Tear it down?

https://www.olatheks.org/home/showdocument?id=13428 Hopefully one of big box is a Grocery and others new to Olathe or KC area. Some of Restaurants listed that aren't in KC area hopefully get here or Olathe Gateway phase 2 or so on.

The Golf place to be like Top Golf.

I wish there were plans for an outdoor ice sheet similar to Lee's Summit new facility.