KCRag Forum

Stockton wrote:

moderne wrote:The only things dt kck can attract is wyco government, courts, and public housing. When I was a child it was the #3 shopping district in the metro. When Debbie Barnes of OP became Miss America in 1965 her triumphal parade was not held in JoCo but Minnesota Ave.

Well, more recently it's attracted a rather expensive apartment development to a historic school building, as well as other loft development, townhouse condominiums, and quite a few new single family homes that average about $150,000 a piece, as well as an engineering firm and private development by Lamar Hunt. All of that stuff is a drop in the bucket, but should be acknowledged and may be seeding of what is to come. Minnesota is still a fairly busy shopping street, although it's very working class. Thrift stores, bazaars, ethnic food places, used appliances, etc.

Stockton, you and Justin can maybe offer some perspective on a question that rises with this proposal.

Downtown KCK has a community center that is free to residents and seems to be well programmed and used. The plan seems to be to demolish this center and replace it with a YMCA, that will require membership and usage fees from all visitors.

Is this correct? If so, it seems a disservice to KCK residents......no?

edit: Those $150,000 homes at 7th and Armstrong are pretty incredible. Great floorplans. Quality finishes. High energy rating.

Stockton wrote:

justin8216 wrote:Healthy campus' is at heart of new downtown KCK master plan


We have committed $6 million dollars of the UG's annual gaming revenue from Hollywood Casino to development of new downtown YMCA, Grocery Store, Downtown Streetscaping, etc.

And the naysayers on this forum keep trotting out the same old lie that development out west isn't paying dividends in the urban core of KC, KS. I've been saying that was a fiction from the start and as usual I'm right.

These things take time. Village West is now firmly entrenched as an economic engine paying dividends in the form of revenue to the UG to do these kinds of projects to revitalize our urban core.


That's a nice plan. It looks really good. But if it's a serious plan with what they realistically have in mind, I have to wonder where Gate's BBQ (where the parking with solar sheds is) and the 4-plex apartment buildings below Wyandotte Towers went (southeast of 10th and Washington). Pushing out Gate's wouldn't be a good thing. I guess the 4-plex apartment buildings could be redeveloped, but turning over public housing land for redevelopment seems unlikely, doesn't it? Those particular apartments are quite nice and for older people specifically, not troublemakers or anything like that, at least that was the case last I knew.

It's possible that public housing land could be redeveloped in KCK. It's happening in KCMO. The area in Columbus Park around Gillis and Guinotte, where the old public housing towers were, is being redeveloped. Then there is the Paseo Gateway Plan where the Chouteau Courts public housing project will be demolished and that area redeveloped in mixed use/mixed income housing and retail.

If they really want to bring downtown KCK back, an essential part of the plan should be to build denser housing in the immediate blocks around downtown. Not just apartment buildings per se. On the mostly vacant blocks in the area, where there used to be single family houses, rebuild attached row houses -- two- to four-story dwellings that share firewalls, and have small porches. Small yards or courtyards in the back with parking off the alley. The houses could have basement apartments with the family home above. Those could be rented out, or related family members could live there (adult single children, elderly parents, etc.)

The porches get people out watching the street, and that helps with crime reduction.

This provides a customer base in walking distance that make the retail spaces along Minnesota and State Avenue relevant again.

Shared-wall housing reduces utility costs, and makes the houses more affordable in the long-run. There are modern row-house designs that allow more light into long narrow structures with shared walls. This is accomplished by making the row houses wider than old-fashioned types. A wider row-house can be designed with light atriums to bring natural light in from the roof down into all levels of the house via stairwells, tall atrium hallways, and use of glass in walls and stairs.

In addition, encourage the exterior finishes to be such that they are durable and long-lasting (brick, stone, glass), so that the "new" housing doesn't look like crap in 20 years. If you want people to move back and repopulate the area around downtown, and thus revive it as a business and retail district, the appearance of the new buildings must appealing and appear upscale. Building a bunch of nondescript Habitat for Humanity houses that look like vinyl-trailers won't accomplish that.

This plan is pure pipedream. I like the plan and its good to dream, but the politics in KCK are so screwed up that there is no way this happens. KCK is still a good-ol-boy network that requires too many back-room deals and money transfers to allow anything truly good to happen there.

It is really a sad situation.

double post

loftguy wrote:

Stockton wrote:

moderne wrote:The only things dt kck can attract is wyco government, courts, and public housing. When I was a child it was the #3 shopping district in the metro. When Debbie Barnes of OP became Miss America in 1965 her triumphal parade was not held in JoCo but Minnesota Ave.

Well, more recently it's attracted a rather expensive apartment development to a historic school building, as well as other loft development, townhouse condominiums, and quite a few new single family homes that average about $150,000 a piece, as well as an engineering firm and private development by Lamar Hunt. All of that stuff is a drop in the bucket, but should be acknowledged and may be seeding of what is to come. Minnesota is still a fairly busy shopping street, although it's very working class. Thrift stores, bazaars, ethnic food places, used appliances, etc.

Stockton, you and Justin can maybe offer some perspective on a question that rises with this proposal.

Downtown KCK has a community center that is free to residents and seems to be well programmed and used. The plan seems to be to demolish this center and replace it with a YMCA, that will require membership and usage fees from all visitors.

Is this correct? If so, it seems a disservice to KCK residents......no?

edit: Those $150,000 homes at 7th and Armstrong are pretty incredible. Great floorplans. Quality finishes. High energy rating.

That's not my understanding at all, though I admit I haven't kept completely on top of all this. In the rendering it looks like the existing John F Kennedy community (recreation) center is retained. I don't totally understand what the new "community center" will be, but I think it will be different, a new location of the current downtown KCK YMCA and whatever else.

I guess there re a few single-family homes amongst the townhouses at 7th and Armstrong, but I was talking about all of the new homes in the Waterway and St. Peter neighborhoods that are just to the southwest of the proposed development. There's also newer housing just north of Washington BLVD, but most of it is suburban style and not designed to fit the context of the area like the others. Below are a couple articles about that area's transformation. The Douglass-Sumner area mentioned in the first link is where new housing appears to be in the rendering toward the northeast, behind the tall building. The second link mentions the houses I was talking about.

http://kcur.org/post/remarkable-transfo ... orhood-kck

http://www.kansascity.com/news/business ... y-off.html

FangKC wrote:

Stockton wrote:

justin8216 wrote:Healthy campus' is at heart of new downtown KCK master plan


We have committed $6 million dollars of the UG's annual gaming revenue from Hollywood Casino to development of new downtown YMCA, Grocery Store, Downtown Streetscaping, etc.

And the naysayers on this forum keep trotting out the same old lie that development out west isn't paying dividends in the urban core of KC, KS. I've been saying that was a fiction from the start and as usual I'm right.

These things take time. Village West is now firmly entrenched as an economic engine paying dividends in the form of revenue to the UG to do these kinds of projects to revitalize our urban core.


That's a nice plan. It looks really good. But if it's a serious plan with what they realistically have in mind, I have to wonder where Gate's BBQ (where the parking with solar sheds is) and the 4-plex apartment buildings below Wyandotte Towers went (southeast of 10th and Washington). Pushing out Gate's wouldn't be a good thing. I guess the 4-plex apartment buildings could be redeveloped, but turning over public housing land for redevelopment seems unlikely, doesn't it? Those particular apartments are quite nice and for older people specifically, not troublemakers or anything like that, at least that was the case last I knew.

It's possible that public housing land could be redeveloped in KCK. It's happening in KCMO. The area in Columbus Park around Gillis and Guinotte, where the old public housing towers were, is being redeveloped. Then there is the Paseo Gateway Plan where the Chouteau Courts public housing project will be demolished and that area redeveloped in mixed use/mixed income housing and retail.

Sure it's possible, but I'm not sure why they would tear down what are solid, not-unattractive, and non-nuisance housing. Those garden apartments are quite nice and allow some of the older people in public housing the ability to have their own front door and little garden area. It's not like there's not enough vacant space or underutilized buildings and land in the same general area.

Stockton wrote:It's not like there's not enough vacant space or underutilized buildings and land in the same general area.

Vacant or underutilized doesn't mean the land is available to develop. What if 50% of it is owned by speculators waiting for rent rates to reach a certain point. Someone would need to kickstart the process and that's not always done with the optimum project.

Stockton wrote:

loftguy wrote: Stockton, you and Justin can maybe offer some perspective on a question that rises with this proposal.

Downtown KCK has a community center that is free to residents and seems to be well programmed and used. The plan seems to be to demolish this center and replace it with a YMCA, that will require membership and usage fees from all visitors.

Is this correct? If so, it seems a disservice to KCK residents......no?

edit: Those $150,000 homes at 7th and Armstrong are pretty incredible. Great floorplans. Quality finishes. High energy rating.

That's not my understanding at all, though I admit I haven't kept completely on top of all this. In the rendering it looks like the existing John F Kennedy community (recreation) center is retained. I don't totally understand what the new "community center" will be, but I think it will be different, a new location of the current downtown KCK YMCA and whatever else.

I guess there re a few single-family homes amongst the townhouses at 7th and Armstrong, but I was talking about all of the new homes in the Waterway and St. Peter neighborhoods that are just to the southwest of the proposed development. There's also newer housing just north of Washington BLVD, but most of it is suburban style and not designed to fit the context of the area like the others. Below are a couple articles about that area's transformation. The Douglass-Sumner area mentioned in the first link is where new housing appears to be in the rendering toward the northeast, behind the tall building. The second link mentions the houses I was talking about.

http://kcur.org/post/remarkable-transfo ... orhood-kck

http://www.kansascity.com/news/business ... y-off.html

Stockton- From what I have been told you are correct. The YMCA at 8th/Armstrong is basically going to move to what is labeled as the "community center" at 10th/minnesota in the diagram- where the brother bank currently is. I don't believe there is any plan to demo the building currently housing the YMCA.

I am really glad that KCK is looking to develop its inner core. Its a positive sign, but this plan has a long way to go. I've heard this is all very preliminary. They have quite a few properties to assemble/relocate/demo and are a long way away with determining the level of subsidy the grocery store will require.

New location, operator for downtown Kansas City, Kan., grocery store revealed

The Unified Government of Wyandotte County/Kansas City, Kan., has reached an initial agreement with cooperative grocer The Merc to operate a downtown grocery store.

Doug Bach, UG administrator, told members of the Economic Development and Finance Committee on Monday night that the $6 million grocery store project would go up at the southwest corner of Fifth Street and Minnesota Avenue, currently a surface parking lot serving the Jack Reardon Convention Center and the Board of Public Utilities.

The Merc runs one standalone grocery store in Lawrence; a Merc-branded cafe is housed in the downtown Lawrence Public Library.

...

https://www.kansascity.com/news/busines ... 03670.html

Location:

https://tinyurl.com/y7lj4cd7

I sadly don't think they'll do much until they figure out what to do with the vacant lot that was Indian Springs.

Great article on the Cathedral of St. Peter in downtown KCKS
https://www.onlyinyourstate.com/missour ... ul-church/

This is what the new downtown KCK grocery store could look like

...
The Unified Government and The Merc Co+op, who will be running the store, hope to break ground in June at 5th & Minnesota.

They need to have a store design picked out by early March to keep everything on track.

It could look like one of three images.

"People are attracted to option three to an extent because it has a canopy and that feels welcoming, like a place they would want to go and congregate," said Rita York Hennecke, the general manager of The Merc in Lawrence.
...

https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/th ... -look-like

Efforts are being made to bring a grocery store to the Northeast part of KCK around 17th and Quindaro.

Effort for NE KCK grocery aims to bring access 'everyone else has'

While downtown Kansas City, Kansas' plans for a new grocery store are moving along , those in KCK's historic northeast neighborhoods say they need the same thing.

Residents have been saying they need a grocery store for a long time. A new initiative focused in recognizing history and culture could bring in a grocery store at 1726 Quindaro.
...

https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/ef ... e-else-has

Downtown KCK grocery store, years in the making, celebrates opening

KANSAS CITY, Kan. — A new grocery store opened recently in downtown Kansas City, Kansas, an area previously identified as a food desert.

The Merc Co+op, a community-owned cooperative business, opened at North 5th Street and Minnesota Avenue in late July. On Wednesday, city and economic development leaders held a ceremony at the store to celebrate the completion of the years-long project.
...

https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/d ... te-opening

Cosentino's opened in downtown KCMO in 2009. Mark this date for downtown KCK!

DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:56 am Cosentino's opened in downtown KCMO in 2009. Mark this date for downtown KCK!

Strawberry hill is looking to start growing too, this could be quite transformative

justin8216 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:32 pm Healthy campus' is at heart of new downtown KCK master plan


We have committed $6 million dollars of the UG's annual gaming revenue from Hollywood Casino to development of new downtown YMCA, Grocery Store, Downtown Streetscaping, etc.

And the naysayers on this forum keep trotting out the same old lie that development out west isn't paying dividends in the urban core of KC, KS. I've been saying that was a fiction from the start and as usual I'm right.

These things take time. Village West is now firmly entrenched as an economic engine paying dividends in the form of revenue to the UG to do these kinds of projects to revitalize our urban core.

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... n-kck.html

How much of this has happened six years later as the Legends area starts to falter a bit?

I'm not certain *any* of that has been done

The grocery store opened up