Johnson County?

GuyInLenexa · Post by **GuyInLenexa** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 11:56 am

DeadManWalking
I do not have an answer to you questions. I have many friends in KCK, I do not have any establised attitude on what city/county/state one lives in here in this region. I only lived here for almost five years. Three in KCMO and two in JOCO.
I do know that until it closed, I used to get sausages at Regan's Meatmarket on Central and 7th and I have shopped at Ball's and other places in KCK. I think that Strawberry Hill is one of the most interesting neighborhoods in the area I love the museum there, I have taken many people visting me from out of town to show them, especially being of a Slavic background. I do not think that KCK people are of a "lower class" as you describe. I have many friends that live there.
KCK had made great strides since I moved here, with all the development in the area of the speedway. I think that will create an anchor for the city.
On my previous reply, I did not say that you NEED to be happy for OPK or JOCO. My basis was that I (as a person who moved here from out of state) do not understand the disdain of KCMO vs JOCO vs Wyandotte vs North of the River vs Lee Summit/Independence/Blue Springs etc.
I feel that people of the metro should be happy that a business locates in OPK instead of Plano TX or Edina MN or Aurora CO.
I do not allign myself with any particular region, I live in a particular region. I allign myself with the Greater Kansas City region.
When I travel on business I never say I am from Lenexa, I always say Kansas City. That means KCK, KCMO, JOCO the region.

I hope that there is a day that there will be more parity in the development of all the areas, it is for the better of the whole communicty.

TheDude · Post by **TheDude** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 1:26 pm

OP = Whitebread = Mediocrity; not that its bad, but it makes me feel good at the end of the day cause i prefer pastrami on rye.

brookside yuppie--out

GuyInLenexa · Post by **GuyInLenexa** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 1:36 pm

LOL
Gee, I just had a white bean and tuna on calamata olive bread.
Pastrami is good though!
I like your style, Dude.

GRID · Post by **GRID** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 1:57 pm

Lenexaguy,

I enjoy you comments and could only dream of the day that a majority of the people think like you, but fact is, reality is not the way you describe it and JoCo did and continues to more harm than good to the metro and grew more for the reasons I and others mentioned than the reasons you mentioned.

Now it has snowballed into what it is today and we have to deal with it.

Someday it might change.

Olathe and OP could use a new mayor....

QueSi2Opie · Post by **QueSi2Opie** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 2:02 pm

GRID wrote:Olathe and OP could use a new mayor....

A liberal mayor!

KCK · Post by **KCK** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:48 pm

GuyInLenexa wrote:DeadManWalking
I do not have an answer to you questions. I have many friends in KCK, I do not have any establised attitude on what city/county/state one lives in here in this region. I only lived here for almost five years. Three in KCMO and two in JOCO.
I do know that until it closed, I used to get sausages at Regan's Meatmarket on Central and 7th and I have shopped at Ball's and other places in KCK. I think that Strawberry Hill is one of the most interesting neighborhoods in the area I love the museum there, I have taken many people visting me from out of town to show them, especially being of a Slavic background. I do not think that KCK people are of a "lower class" as you describe. I have many friends that live there.
KCK had made great strides since I moved here, with all the development in the area of the speedway. I think that will create an anchor for the city.
On my previous reply, I did not say that you NEED to be happy for OPK or JOCO. My basis was that I (as a person who moved here from out of state) do not understand the disdain of KCMO vs JOCO vs Wyandotte vs North of the River vs Lee Summit/Independence/Blue Springs etc.
I feel that people of the metro should be happy that a business locates in OPK instead of Plano TX or Edina MN or Aurora CO.
I do not allign myself with any particular region, I live in a particular region. I allign myself with the Greater Kansas City region.
When I travel on business I never say I am from Lenexa, I always say Kansas City. That means KCK, KCMO, JOCO the region.

I hope that there is a day that there will be more parity in the development of all the areas, it is for the better of the whole communicty.

The funny thing is Im not against development anywhere in Kansas City except JOCO. Im all for development in KCMO, the Northland, hell all over Missouri, also in Leavenworth, Lawrence and of course KCK, but Johnson county gets everything, and we get nothing. Nothing except higher taxes, higher crime, higher unemployment, higher poverty, lower wages and general disrespect from most johnson county citizens, who think we are all blue collar ignorant trash. Not only that, but a tornado comes through KCK, and wipes out some of the actual new houses being built. Tell me God doesn't hate us too. I heard after the floods of 1993, KCK flood victims were moved to Johnson County. Perfect, the KCK government moves citizens out of its own city.

I remember the days when Indian Springs was jam packed and full of stores. Fun Factory, Spencer Gifts, Radio Shack, Jones Store, 2 movie theaters, hell it was one of the best malls in KC, but now it is shit. To get to a decent mall I have to drive to 153rd and I35., 30 miles away.

I remeber a Sears being at Tower Plaza. I remember a Furrs cafeteria in front of K-mart and a Ponderosa right next to the State Ave. Drive in theater. I also remember River City USA, I remember a Checkers on the corner of 7th and central, I remember my grandma's neighborhood being full of houses, now her house is the only one left next to 5 empty lots. My father was around when KCK was its largest and he tells me of a movie theater and a full row of good businesses on Minnesota, and Indian Springs being the first mall in Kansas City, people in Missouri and Kansas all going there. He also told me that KCK used ro be considered suburbs. Johnson county was farmland. Me, my father, my grandfather, my great grandfather, and my great great grandfather were all born in KCK. 90% of my family still lives here. Its in my blood.

I won't just let this place die. I can't. Thats why Im in college, I will learn everything I can, and relieve Mayor MarinoBitch of her duties. Give KCK its first black mayor. DeadManWalking.

.....snapping back to reality.......

Sorry i do that sometimes, going off on a rant. How about for now I work on getting KCK property taxes lowered. Ill right a letter and see why KCK taxes are higher than all of Johnson County, and even KCMO.

KCforumer · Post by **KCforumer** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 12:17 am

I don't remember Jones being at Indian Springs. Just Dillard's, JCPenney, and Montgomery Ward.

ShowME · Post by **ShowME** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 9:55 am

Overland Park and Johnson County as a whole were created because of RACISM. Today it's usually hidden behind the excuse of "we moved here because of the schools".

ShowME · Post by **ShowME** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 10:06 am

Oh really? Why didn't they jus' move to the Northland in KCMO or out near Avila College in South KC? It's a fact that KCMO's government used to be a f*ckin' joke! This led to the rise and success of many suburban cities...especially those that could use incentives to attract businesses across the state line. Seriously, why else would someone from KCMO move to JOCO?
_________________

Why else would someone move from KCMO to JOCO? I think we already answered that it's called racism. And yes households from the core continually move to the Northland and South KC near Avila College has basically been built out for the last 30 years except the few developments that are currently going on near the Blue Ridge Blvd and Wornall Rd areas.
I also want to start a discussion on why Johnson Countians think the government of KCMO is a joke past and present. If it was that big a joke in the past why didn't you stay and run for office and change things to your liking? Instead your solution is to run/move away from the problem. And if you're so concerned about government mismangement then why did you let that joke of a convention center off College Boulevard get built? Talk about a money pit. That's ok by the time your property taxes go up even further for that place most of you Johnson Countians will have moved to Miami County anyways.

StL_Dan · Post by **StL_Dan** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 10:23 am

ShowME wrote:Why else would someone move from KCMO to JOCO? I think we already answered that it's called racism.

solid schools for their children for starters

ShowME wrote:I also want to start a discussion on why Johnson Countians think the government of KCMO is a joke past and present.

I'm not sure the KCMO political leaders and offices are a joke, but, they do manage to get a whole lot of nothing done in some respects. That's not a rip on KCMO, cuz it's still a cool place despite the snails pace at which things develop.

And, their is a lot of good stuff going on in KCMO too. I recognize that fact. So don't think this post was motivated by some type of blind hatred for KCMO.

Post by **bahua** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 10:26 am

It wasn't racism. Racism couldn't have hurt, in encouraging people to forsake the city, but it wasn't the biggest reason that the massive flight occurred. If it had been a major reason, the flight would have happened a lot earlier than the 50s. In Kansas City, and every city, people moved out of the city in droves for a number of other reasons:

1) Cars, which had previous to the war, been largely a luxury of the wealthy, had become cheaper. At the same time, America's economy was booming, creating an entire class of people with disposable income. These two things led to almost every family having their own car.
2) The Eisenhower Interstate Highway system was in full swing, allowing easy commutes from the new suburbs to downtown offices
3) A significant portion of working men at that time were WW2 veterans, and there were tens of thousands of dollars for them if they built a new home out in the country.
4) The white folks were wealthier than the black folks, and were thus more capable of making that move.

But, "getting away from the darkies" was not a big motivator, else it would have happened earlier.

KC_JAYHAWK · Post by **KC_JAYHAWK** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 10:32 am

ShowMe, why dont you chill the fvck out for starters. People move to the suburbs for all sorts of reasons, most likely it has nothing to do with racism, how narrow minded are you? I know alot of people who bought their first house in KCMO (Brookside, Plaza, Waldo) but eventually sold when they had kids because of the need for a larger home and proximity to better school districts. And most of them didn't want to sell their KCMO homes.

ShowME · Post by **ShowME** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 10:32 am

But, "getting away from the darkies" was not a big motivator, else it would have happened earlier.

It's pretty easy to correlate Johnson County's growth with the desegregation cases of the late 50's and early 60's.

GuyInLenexa · Post by **GuyInLenexa** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 11:28 am

If Johnson County was a product of racial white flight, the metro would have the same population it did in 1960. Many people moved here from other places outside the metro, me included. People from the outside saw the reputation JOCO had as having a high quality of life. The media said it, real estate people say it, JOCO has won many awards and recognition of being a good place to live. And to the desire of many, it is.
Like I mentioned before, all great cities have great suburbs. JOCO and many of the other growing metro burbs reflect Kansas City MO as a whole.
JOCO is not going to go away or diminish or disappear. It is here to stay and will continue to grow.
Greater KC will grow, hopefully in harmony with all of it's environs.
I do not want all the growth to be focused here in JOCO, I find it exciting that other parts of the city are booming also.
As an area, we have so much to look forward to as the national economy begins to spring back.
However, we will not see companies grow like they did in the 90's they are used to being "lean and mean". Metro KC is going to have to be more agressive in seeking companies from other sources than just wooing other in the metro to move to their municipalities.
For instance, were were we when the new Toyota truck plant was being built (won by San Antonio TX) it is an $800,000,000.00 facility with high paying jobs. Look what we have in the area, two auto plants, probably with many workers in those skills.
NEW jobs is what will make the metro grow, not churn.
I feel that the area should make a moratorium on moving things from one place to the other within the metro. No more corporate welfare but more new growth.
What can be done to encourage such a policy?

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 11:38 am

as a JoCo resident, you can contact your representatives (local to state) and tell them you are sick of seeing this and policies need to be changed.

Post by **bahua** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 1:43 pm

The problem, GuyinLenexa, is that suburban places exist to the detriment of urban places. They cannot work for each other's mutual benefit, as they are inherently adversarial.

GuyInLenexa · Post by **GuyInLenexa** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 2:36 pm

Bahua, I know is is work time, but if you get a chance, could you elaborate on how the suburbs are a detriment to the inner city?
I have many friends who live in the Northland that complain the same thing about their taxes going "South of the River"
I feel that there are detriments, but there are ways to coexist.
I always respect your ideas and opinions, I would like to understand them more.

Thanks

Post by **chrizow** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 4:47 pm

i dont think that cities and suburbs are inherently pitted against each other. there are PLENTY of cities in the US and around the world with bustling cities AND bustling suburbs (as well as pockets of depressed areas). does Westchester County exist at the detriment of NYC? NW Cook County at the expense of Chicago? London, Paris, etc. obviously kc, cleveland, detroit, stl are not in the same league. but it shows that suburbs can coexist fine with cities.

KC, stl, and detroit have some AMAZING suburbs, and they are large, sprawling, rich. some are bland (SoJoCo) and some are treasures (Clayton, MO...Grosse Pointe, MI, etc...)

the rise of suburbia and the fall of (some) cities is the result of a myriad of factors - it HAS to be. millions of people dont flee cities for one SINGLE reason.

Racism: yeah, this has to be a big factor. How else do you explain largely black inner cities and mostly white suburbs?

Raytown is a great example of how this works. my grandparents' generation left the inner city to move to raytown. some (not my grandparents) moved b/c of the burgeoning black populace. others (like my grandparents) moved to raytown to have more space and a slower pace, b/c it was the COUNTRY back then.

Raytown (and others) obviously became built up into their own cities. for the last decade or so, raytown has seen a large influx of black people, usually people from the inner city who want to move out and make a better life. this is my generation. i went to school with the kids of these people. i graduated in '99 and my HS class of 300 was probably 40% black. my brother graduated in '94 and his class was probably 10% black. the numbers are only going up.

NOW, there is no shortage of people in raytown (not rednecks i assure you) who seek to move to LS, BS, OPKS, Olathe, NKC, etc. because raytown is becoming "too black." others that i know are moving to those places to have better home values, bigger homes, newer homes, etc.

Racism only causes RACIST PEOPLE to move. there are lots of racists in this town and in this world, but they aren't everyone. not even close.

Other factors cause the other 90% to move. more space...better schools...etc.

JoCo is what it is for a myriad of reasons. people are moving there in droves, and it isn't because they are racist. hell, the VAST majority of these people are moving from other white burbs, KC burbs or otherwise.

eliphar17 · Post by **eliphar17** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 6:07 pm

ShowME wrote:Overland Park and Johnson County as a whole were created because of RACISM. Today it's usually hidden behind the excuse of "we moved here because of the schools".

Yeah, because nowadays soooo many people are saying to themselves, "I hate black people, so I'm going to move to JoCo...and oh yeah, I shouldn't tell anyone that I hate black people, so I will say I'm moving for the schools." And of course we all know that no one in their right mind would move simply for those horrible JoCo schools.

How ignorant can you be?

I believe that in the beginning (the 1940s-50s) racism was the reason people moved to JoCo. J.C. Nichols was the developer, and he hated black people (in fact, before 1947, black people were not allowed to buy homes in his developments). He wanted to make a place where white people could live far away from black people. Yes, J.C. Nichols - the one who made the Plaza - made JoCo what it is today.

On a semi-related subject, this is an excellent essay on the history of Southwest High School, from its prominence as an all-white academic center to its closing in 1998 as a 94% black school: http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/English/ ... apiro.html

I guess my point in responding to your comment, ShowME, is that it's very unfair of you to make the generalization that people move to JoCo because they are racist. And it's unfair of you to suggest that the schools aren't as good as their reputation says. As a senior at a Shawnee Mission high school, I can tell you that the schools have definitely earned their reputation as being among the best in the nation.

scooterj · Post by **scooterj** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 6:21 pm

eliphar17 wrote:I guess my point in responding to your comment, ShowME, is that it's very unfair of you to make the generalization that people move to JoCo because they are racist. And it's unfair of you to suggest that the schools aren't as good as their reputation says. As a senior at a Shawnee Mission high school, I can tell you that the schools have definitely earned their reputation as being among the best in the nation.

There are schools on the MO side that are just as good, if not better. Lee's Summit and Blue Springs are two that are extremely good school districts. And they are building new schools instead of closing existing schools as in Shawnee Mission. Yet JoCo, for now anyway, still has more growth. So it's not racism and it's not the schools, so what is it?