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Re: Prarielife at Lionsgate - large mixed use development and museum

Post by FangKC »

In the future, movie theaters will feature adjustable hospital beds with IV drips of sustainance during the film. In addition, you can have dialysis during your visit.  :lol:
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Re: Prarielife at Lionsgate - large mixed use development and museum

Post by trailerkid »

mgsports wrote: Theirs no Movie Theater by Oak Park Mall or in Shawnee.
Cinemark in Merriam is also relatively close to Shawnee. There was a plan a few years back to put an AMC in back of Oak Park (where the Target currently is?) but the neighborhood stopped it.

Inner or "mid" JoCo actually is lacking in terms of multiplexes while there are tons of screens in the exurban areas. My folks were staying around 103rd/Metcalf and we went down to 119th b/c that's basically all there is down there. Ward Parkway and the Merriam Cinemark aren't really sufficient to service a relatively affluent area like NE JoCo, Leawood, etc. I'm not sure the state of Ward Parkway AMC right now, but it wasn't pretty last time I was in there. You'd think AMC would want a better, A-list location in the heart of that area.
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Re: Prarielife at Lionsgate - large mixed use development and museum

Post by KCMax »

trailerkid wrote: Cinemark in Merriam is also relatively close to Shawnee. There was a plan a few years back to put an AMC in back of Oak Park (where the Target currently is?) but the neighborhood stopped it.
There actually was a small theater there before where Chik-Fil-A is now. I remember seeing movies there in high school.

Inner-east/NE JoCo has a number of theaters not that far away - Cinemark in Merriam, Town Center, Ward Parkway and Cinemark on the Plaza - not to mention smaller houses like the Rio in DT OP, Glenwood Arts, and Leawood Theater. I don't think they need another movie theater.
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Re: Prarielife at Lionsgate - large mixed use development and museum

Post by GRID »

I can't believe you guys can even discuss this project without getting sick to your stomachs.  Everything about this project is wrong and I hate it with a passion.  This project sums up nearly everything that is wrong with metro kc and the fact that it doesn't generate a fraction of the negative press that the P&L district does is beyond my comprehension.

Are people seriously ok with this?  I mean, there should be people down there protesting that project.

You are talking about the state subsidizing suburban sprawl in one of the wealthiest zip codes in the Midwest.  This is not just corporate welfare, this is corporate welfare at a whole new level.  90 MILLION dollars of state money (most of the project's cost) is being used to build a project that has zero reason to be developed in the first place because Johnson County and Metro Kansas City are already extremely overbuilt with retail.

I mean metro KC residents and the KC press rip a new one on KCMO nonstop for subsidizing the P&L District which is an urban redevelopment project that completely rebuilt half of downtown and even then the city basically spent money to buy and clear blight, rebuild infrastructure, and build garages that serve more than the district.  Cordish funded the actual project.  But this project which is being subsidized far greater than the P&L District and is being built on an empty lot in a very affluent suburb?  Nothing.  Not a damn thing.  It's totally fine because well, it's Johnson County.

Then, you add in the absolutely absurd idea of creating a "tourist attraction" via a museum which is nothing more than a box in a strip mall to justify the use of STAR bonds.  Not only is this a terrible location for such an attraction when places like Union Station and the KC museum sit underutilized, it is one more step in the continued erosion of KCMO's urban core and the attempted migration of KC's culture and economy to suburban Kansas.

Now you have this theater chain which will come into town with probably nothing to lose as they will probably get a crazy sweetheart deal (much like the theater at village west did) to put their name on a state funded theater.  There is a reason AMC is not out there.  The market is not there yet.  The population is not there yet.  They would only cannibalize their existing theaters.  Just like they didn't want to go to Village West because they didn't want to be in an area where only 500 people live within five miles.  But a super subsidized development will eventually land somebody and in the end, it will probably put another theater out of business like an AMC or the Dickenson Pallazo which actually pay taxes to fund schools and cops, not their own existence.

If this project (and its funding mechanism) were even proposed for a redevelopment project of an inner ring suburb of the Balt DC area it would be laughed right out of the region.  But in an affluent suburb on the far edge of the metro?

Even the residents would be like, WTF?, put the Museum in Downtown DC or Baltimore, what are you thinking?,  What a ridiculous attempt to get a suburban strip mall funded almost entirely by tax payers.

Are people really that stupid in KC?  Seriously?

Oh and if people do go there and pay the 10-12% sales tax that will be charged there (double what it is here), than yea, It think people are pretty damn stupid.  They will be the same ones that won't vote for a 1/8 cent regional sales tax for transit, museums, stadiums etc.  Ironic?  No.  Just the KC mentality.

I mean isn't the freeloading off KCMO enough? No public support for stadiums, zoo etc.  And the company poaching?  The subsidized Sprint Campus is killing KC for the SECOND time, draining thousands of jobs to a heavily subsidized campus using massive amounts of "new job" incentives on top of the cheap campus rates where furnished office space is cheaper than unfurnished class b space in kcmo.

Enough with the destructive methods of interacting with metro KC.  Johnson County and Kansas, when will you get on the same page and stop being such a competitor and even enemy of KCMO?  Enough already.
Last edited by GRID on Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Prarielife at Lionsgate - large mixed use development and museum

Post by GRID »

^ that was my soapbox post for the year! Good day  :D
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Re: Prarielife at Lionsgate - large mixed use development and museum

Post by trailerkid »

A ton of the folks of your generation and older on the KS side are absolute, fucking morons. Seriously, what do you want the collective "us" to do about it?
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Re: Prarielife at Lionsgate - large mixed use development and museum

Post by FangKC »

Yes, it is sort of ridiculous to place a natural history museum way out there after the Bi-State initiative took Kansas dollars to help restore Union Station.  Union Station desperately needs traffic and a bigger purpose. It needs to be self-sustaining. Kansans contributed dollars to Union Station and complain about it not being in the black--that it was a waste of money. Then they spend even more money creating competing attractions in far-flung suburban strip malls that should logically go at, or around, Union Station.
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Re: Prarielife at Lionsgate - large mixed use development and museum

Post by slimwhitman »

GRID wrote: I can't believe you guys can even discuss this project without getting sick to your stomachs. 
Grid, you are so correct, but..... as someone that grew up in JoCo, I understand the mentality here.  I am not saying it is right, but it is a different perspective that is very real and very common.  My folks had this magnetic hate for Missouri and “the city”.  My dad even worked on Rainbow….a block from KCMO, but he almost never crossed the state line.  So neither did I.  In high school in the ‘80s, my stomping ground was north OP and Mission.  I think I only went into KCMO a couple times….to the Plaza for dinner before prom or something.  It’s not like I lived in Olathe or Lawrence, I was just a few miles away in NE JoCo!  Anyway, to us, KCMO was worlds away.  “What happened there does not affect me.”

One time, when we were on vacation in Denver (I was 14 or so), we had a conversation with a guy there and he asked where we were from.  Mom told him “Kansas”.  Huh?  Kansas is a big place and Denver is not very far from Kansas.  Wouldn’t the correct answer have been “Kansas City”?  Not in my mom’s eyes.  We were not from KC.  We were from OP or Lenexa or Johnson County.  (Keep in mind, my parents are not native to the area, so it’s not like they have an allegiance to Kansas.)

My parents still rarely go into Missouri.  They are boomers that love the suburban lifestyle.  They have since built two new homes on greenfield suburban lots on cul-de-sacs.  They see jobs and attractions moving to JoCo as a good thing because it’s good for their economy.

So…keep up the fight.  It might take a generation or two to change the tide (or really expensive gas!).  My parents are typical of many suburban residents and their elected officials.
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Re: Prarielife at Lionsgate - large mixed use development and museum

Post by GRID »

trailerkid wrote: A ton of the folks of your generation and older on the KS side are absolute, fucking morons. Seriously, what do you want the collective "us" to do about it?
This should even piss off people in JoCo, let alone the pro urban crowd on this forum....
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Re: Prarielife at Lionsgate - large mixed use development and museum

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GRID wrote: This should even piss off people in JoCo, let alone the pro urban crowd on this forum....
This coupled with this threadjust illustrate what frauds Kansas fiscal conservatives really are.
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Re: Prarielife at Lionsgate - large mixed use development and museum

Post by GRID »

slimwhitman wrote: Grid, you are so correct, but..... as someone that grew up in JoCo, I understand the mentality here.  I am not saying it is right, but it is a different perspective that is very real and very common.  My folks had this magnetic hate for Missouri and “the city”.  My dad even worked on Rainbow….a block from KCMO, but he almost never crossed the state line.  So neither did I.  In high school in the ‘80s, my stomping ground was north OP and Mission.  I think I only went into KCMO a couple times….to the Plaza for dinner before prom or something.  It’s not like I lived in Olathe or Lawrence, I was just a few miles away in NE JoCo!  Anyway, to us, KCMO was worlds away.  “What happened there does not affect me.”

One time, when we were on vacation in Denver (I was 14 or so), we had a conversation with a guy there and he asked where we were from.  Mom told him “Kansas”.  Huh?  Kansas is a big place and Denver is not very far from Kansas.  Wouldn’t the correct answer have been “Kansas City”?  Not in my mom’s eyes.  We were not from KC.  We were from OP or Lenexa or Johnson County.  (Keep in mind, my parents are not native to the area, so it’s not like they have an allegiance to Kansas.)

My parents still rarely go into Missouri.  They are boomers that love the suburban lifestyle.  They have since built two new homes on greenfield suburban lots on cul-de-sacs.  They see jobs and attractions moving to JoCo as a good thing because it’s good for their economy.

So…keep up the fight.  It might take a generation or two to change the tide (or really expensive gas!).  My parents are typical of many suburban residents and their elected officials.
I think the tide is turning compared to the way it was ten years ago, but when projects like this take place, it really is a step back IMO.

It's awesome hearing stories of people that come from an environment like yours become pro urban core because people like you are who will change the mentality as you educate people in your circle about how a city should be.

I'm too hard core for people to even listen to me, but the more passive approach of ignoring the problem (what most people do) has even less impact.

So keep doing what you can, it's the younger crowd that has a clue that will change KC's culture over time.  It will never be perfect, but some day, it will be more in line with what you find in other metropolitan areas where a much higher percent of suburbanites have civic pride in the city and metropolitan area they are from, not just the suburb or state they reside in.
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Re: Prarielife at Lionsgate - large mixed use development and museum

Post by Stockton »

When I first saw a new huge mega-plex is planned for 135th only a mile down the road from the newest Palazzo, I immediately thought of market saturation, which it very well may be - we shall see. But it does seem to be kids that fuel these places and there are probably more kids in South JoCo than anywhere else in metro KC - so who knows.

That said, I've noticed a sort of "white-flight" scenario going on with the movie theaters in this town.
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Re: Prarielife at Lionsgate - large mixed use development and museum

Post by KCMax »

When I was in high school, in the 90s, the big theater to go to was at 119th and Metcalf across from where Target is now. I think its now a gym. It was packed back in the day - why did it go belly up?
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Re: Prarielife at Lionsgate - large mixed use development and museum

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KCMax wrote: When I was in high school, in the 90s, the big theater to go to was at 119th and Metcalf across from where Target is now. I think its now a gym. It was packed back in the day - why did it go belly up?
The area got overbuilt, I guess they have not learned.  Movies 10 (behind Rosana Square) opened within months of Southglen.  Movies 10 quickly became a discount theater, then office space for the IRS (who moved to downtown).  SouthGlen went vacant for years before becoming a gym.  AMC Leawood and Olathe kicked both their asses.  The Great Mall theater is heavily subsidized or it would be closed by now too and the AMC Olathe closed many screens for some time.

It was the same deal.  Too many theaters on the edge of the city.  135th is the 119th of yesterday.

All developers see is the demographics of JoCo, they ignore the fact that it's way overbuilt.  Also, the county has a high sales/population ratio because it pulls so many people in from other counties to shop.  As more options develop in other area counties,the destination appeal has eroded.  So that's why it's taking massive subsidies now to get any tenants out there and they will end up causing a lot of blight north of 119th very soon trying to develop 135th and further south so prematurely.
Last edited by GRID on Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Prarielife at Lionsgate - large mixed use development and museum

Post by Stockton »

KCMax wrote: When I was in high school, in the 90s, the big theater to go to was at 119th and Metcalf across from where Target is now. I think its now a gym. It was packed back in the day - why did it go belly up?
Cannibalization, as GRID just explained really well.

I'm no fan of suburban culture, the keeping-up-with-the-Jones's mentality and unsustainable communities, and hope JoCo is maturing and we see many of the great ideas and investment playout inside the 435 loop in the coming years. Hopefully once western JoCo really explodes, all of the past doesn't play out again. Projects like the Lenexa City Center seem really cool.
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Re: Prarielife at Lionsgate - large mixed use development and museum

Post by AJoD »

trailerkid wrote: YES. I went to a Cinetopia in Vancouver, WA a few years ago. It had a decent bar...maybe a little hipper than your average bar in a movie theater. They had an auditorium you can rent with comfortable, lounge seating with body pillows and whatnot (which is kind of gross now that I mention it). The location I was in seemed kind of old and strip mallish, but in an endearing way. I didn't eat there, but it wasn't something I would drive to 135th Street to experience again. Do folks in SoJoCo care about a "high cinephile" experience curated by some Portlandian chef as you've described? I seriously, seriously doubt it. Maybe he should look at taking over the Tivoli or doing something in Midtown.

20 screens seems like a pretty odd venture for them just based off the Liberty Hall-esque, boutiquey operation I experienced, but maybe they're getting a lot of money from the developer. On a totally unrelated sidenote...the location I visited in suburban Vancouver was robbed the night after I was there.
Interesting, my impression was higher concept than what you described, but I believe it.  Alan wasn't/isn't a Portlandian and wasn't really behind the concept, just consulting chef getting the restaurant operation off the ground.

It's hard for me to understand a lot of things about that part of the metro, so I hesitate to predict success or failure.  It does seem like there are enough theater/restaurant concepts around at this point that I'm not sure why you'd come in with an undifferentiated offering in that vein.  Their is "supposed" to be one in the Mission Gateway too.
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Re: Prarielife at Lionsgate - large mixed use development and museum

Post by mistervinix »

AJoD wrote: Interesting, my impression was higher concept than what you described, but I believe it.  Alan wasn't/isn't a Portlandian and wasn't really behind the concept, just consulting chef getting the restaurant operation off the ground.

It's hard for me to understand a lot of things about that part of the metro, so I hesitate to predict success or failure.  It does seem like there are enough theater/restaurant concepts around at this point that I'm not sure why you'd come in with an undifferentiated offering in that vein.  Their is "supposed" to be one in the Mission Gateway too.
Not to mention the Gold Class Cinema already announced for Corbin Park (but that could be dead when the new developers take it over). Corbin Park is basically across the street from the Prarielife project.
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Re: Prarielife at Lionsgate - large mixed use development and museum

Post by pstokely »

South/East KC, Grandview, Raytown, Western Independence are under served by the multiplexes. Families are more likely to pay over $10 and go to a multiplex. Empty nesters will just use pay-per view or netflex. Developers see JoCo north of I435 and old and gray haired. 135th is about to be overserved by the multiplexes because the multiplex chains see Demographics out there but I guess they don't see any of those Demographics between Lees Summit and State Line Road
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Re: Prarielife at Lionsgate - large mixed use development and museum

Post by mgsports »

AMC Fork and Dime is on 119th Street in Olathe. Know Village West or even Bonner Springs needs a Movie Theater. Corbin Park will still get some of the Teneats that have come yet like Sports Authoirty and Old Navy and maybe Ross Dress for Less.
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Re: Prarielife at Lionsgate - large mixed use development and museum

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Will New Movieplex at 135th & Nall Break Ground, Live to Tell the Story?
"If they go in there, I think what will happen is what happened to the new theater that closed last year at Zona Rosa," one theater exec says."The competitors will refuse to play day and date with them, and the movie studios will have to decide which theater to give the movies to. So the new theater would only get half of the product.

"This is supposed to be a very luxurious megaplex, but can it exist on only half the Hollywood theater output? And they're not big enough to get any assurances (from the studios) - they're a small circuit out of the west coast."
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