Prariefire at Lionsgate - large mixed use development

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AlbertHammond
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Re: Prariefire at Lionsgate - large mixed use development

Postby AlbertHammond » Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:58 am

mistervinix wrote:PrairieFire: It seems like a quality development that unfortunately is in the wrong location. It cries out for lots of pedestrian traffic, but everyone has to drive there and then navigate a huge parking garage. There is no compelling reason to walk around the place. If they can't link up the first phase with something that is really a draw in the second phase, then they should just build another Walmart there and call it a day.

I never thought I would agree with "they should just build another Walmart there and call it a day", but I do in this case. I generally like being at Prairiefire. It is pleasant enough...well detailed with good enclosure when on the "main street". But the damn thing is an island in a sea of car oriented barriers. The idea of a "main street mixed use development" is wonderful and all, but it can't fully succeed without full-on connectivity to the surrounding neighborhoods. Not until we reconnect the grid and show respect for the public realm at the human scale, will we see this type development realize its full potential.

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Re: Prariefire at Lionsgate - large mixed use development

Postby flyingember » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:13 am

AlbertHammond wrote:Not until we reconnect the grid and show respect for the public realm at the human scale, will we see this type development realize its full potential.


Reconnect the grid?

The problem isn't a lack of a grid, it's the scale of the roads that make up the grid and the lack of close commercial destinations to residences as a whole. Everything being far away and across 8 lanes of pavement means no amount of grid makes that walkable.

And Overland Park has a much better biking network than KC does and is going to expand it a ton, to their credit.

Look at Troost, Wornall, Main, Prospect. Look at the distance between these corridors. They have a shallow but continuous row of commercial space where you could bike to the store from any place in the neighborhood along them.

OP has a few corridors like this, 135th is the notable one, but they're much further apart. In some parts of JoCO there's a shopping center surrounded by only homes for a much longer distance.

Prairiefire would work much better if it was half the depth and twice as long, if it looked more like a center along Wornall. The building scale works well, but like you said, it's isolated.

mistervinix
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Re: Prariefire at Lionsgate - large mixed use development

Postby mistervinix » Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:25 am

flyingember wrote:
AlbertHammond wrote:Not until we reconnect the grid and show respect for the public realm at the human scale, will we see this type development realize its full potential.


Reconnect the grid?

The problem isn't a lack of a grid, it's the scale of the roads that make up the grid and the lack of close commercial destinations to residences as a whole. Everything being far away and across 8 lanes of pavement means no amount of grid makes that walkable.

And Overland Park has a much better biking network than KC does and is going to expand it a ton, to their credit.

Look at Troost, Wornall, Main, Prospect. Look at the distance between these corridors. They have a shallow but continuous row of commercial space where you could bike to the store from any place in the neighborhood along them.

OP has a few corridors like this, 135th is the notable one, but they're much further apart. In some parts of JoCO there's a shopping center surrounded by only homes for a much longer distance.

Prairiefire would work much better if it was half the depth and twice as long, if it looked more like a center along Wornall. The building scale works well, but like you said, it's isolated.


The second/final phase would attempt to link with the existing development (according to the last plan they filed). A road and sidewalk would cut directly through the "marshland" on the north side of the museum. Maybe that would make it more pedestrian friendly.

Overcoming the scale of the roadways in Overland Park is a daunting challenge to any developer wanting to build something more walkable - look at how last years's Metcalf South redevelopment plan was hurt by 95th.

mgsports
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Re: Prariefire at Lionsgate - large mixed use development

Postby mgsports » Tue May 03, 2016 7:07 pm

http://www.kansascity.com/news/business ... 23402.html Lucky's Market? Natural Grocers? Whole Foods? Dillions back? Kroger? Gerbes? Winco? Ramey Price Cutter? Deibergs? Shopko? Meijer? Old Time Pottery? Bloomingdales? New to area?

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Re: Prariefire at Lionsgate - large mixed use development

Postby flyingember » Tue May 03, 2016 8:57 pm

Do you really think another grocery store will go in a shopping center with one already?

I also like how you wrote Kroger three times.

Given this shopping center is trying to sell a Plaza-esque fancy I would count on nothing you could find with a Subway, Radio Shack or such in the same center.

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Re: Prariefire at Lionsgate - large mixed use development

Postby mgsports » Tue May 03, 2016 10:00 pm

https://www.facebook.com/prairiefireOP/ ... 2001758400 Just read their reply. I said besides Kroger 2 others owned by them that are near by.

aknowledgeableperson
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Re: Prariefire at Lionsgate - large mixed use development

Postby aknowledgeableperson » Wed May 04, 2016 1:12 am

"Overcoming the scale of the roadways in Overland Park is a daunting challenge to any developer wanting to build something more walkable - look at how last years's Metcalf South redevelopment plan was hurt by 95th."

I would imagine for the most part most would only want what's inside this development to be "walkable". Beyond it's borders I just get in my car, good weather or bad, during the day, evening, or night. As long as the development has a place to buy food and booze, a variety of places to eat and drink, and a few other services then what else is needed. Want to go to someplace different just hop in the car and go. Enough variety within a mile or two. An opinion may be if the development can take care of most of my needs most of the time then that is just fine.

brewcrew1000
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Re: Prariefire at Lionsgate - large mixed use development

Postby brewcrew1000 » Wed May 04, 2016 8:43 am

I really think the only grocery store expansion we will see in the metro for awhile is Aldi, possibly Trader Joe's and maybe a couple new Hyvee's and Price Choppers. I could see Natures Grocery as another new entry pulling out fairly soon. The one in Mission looks dead all the time.

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Re: Prariefire at Lionsgate - large mixed use development

Postby flyingember » Wed May 04, 2016 9:16 am

Facts on the ground seem to say otherwise

Sprouts has built more new recently than the other chains you've listed.
Walmart wanted to build their grocery style along Metcalf.
HyVee has closed/consolidated as many stores as they've built in recent years.

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Re: Prariefire at Lionsgate - large mixed use development

Postby kcjak » Wed May 04, 2016 9:35 am

I love Fresh Market. My parents go to the one in Wichita several times a week and I go out of my way to go to the one in Prairiefire whenever I find myself stuck out in that area. I'm sad to see them leaving the area.

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Re: Prariefire at Lionsgate - large mixed use development

Postby brewcrew1000 » Wed May 04, 2016 1:49 pm

flyingember wrote:Facts on the ground seem to say otherwise

Sprouts has built more new recently than the other chains you've listed.
Walmart wanted to build their grocery style along Metcalf.
HyVee has closed/consolidated as many stores as they've built in recent years.


I realize Sprouts has built here recently but I don't think we will see any new chains moving into this metro for awhile. I think right now its all about maintaining marketshare, improving current concepts and keeping up with trends. Hyvee has done a great job of that but I do see Aldi as the one with the most growth potential. Another Chain I could see going belly up is Hen House, I really think they are at risk right now.

mgsports
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Re: Prariefire at Lionsgate - large mixed use development

Postby mgsports » Wed May 04, 2016 4:54 pm

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... j=72930652
Only Hy-Vee that has closed that hasen't reopened some where else is the Leawood.Lucky's still,going to open a location.

geeman68
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Re: Prariefire at Lionsgate - large mixed use development

Postby geeman68 » Thu May 05, 2016 8:34 am

I don't understand how between State Line and Metcalf on 135th Street you can have Super Target, Walmart Supercenter, Price Chopper, Fresh Market, Sprouts and Hen House and expect them all to survive. Then you have food deserts in certain areas. Not right.

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Re: Prariefire at Lionsgate - large mixed use development

Postby longviewmo » Sun May 08, 2016 2:34 pm

kcjak wrote:I love Fresh Market. My parents go to the one in Wichita several times a week and I go out of my way to go to the one in Prairiefire whenever I find myself stuck out in that area. I'm sad to see them leaving the area.


Yeah, I also use the Wichita one quite a bit. Looks like they just got bought out by the people who flipped Sprouts. They no longer appear to have a share in Sprouts, but there's one opening up a couple miles away from the Fresh Market in Wichita. I think the whole area here just probably got too saturated with "healthy" stores because it's also within a mile-ish of a Green Acres Market, Nature's Grocery, Whole Foods, and a coming-soon Sprouts.

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Re: Prariefire at Lionsgate - large mixed use development

Postby mgsports » Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:20 pm

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... j=73993402 Merrill expects to announce a replacement soon for the 24,000-square-foot Fresh Market location in Prairiefire.

Announced in May, "the Fresh Market closing was a corporate deal," not specific to Prairiefire, Merrill said.

"They closed 13 stores," he said, "and the one here had a long-term lease, which they still have to pay. But we hope to replace it soon with a soft-goods retailer that will do double the sales." So who do you hope it i? New to area Shopko maybe.

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Re: Prariefire at Lionsgate - large mixed use development

Postby Sani » Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:06 pm

Ugh, Shopko? I stopped at the one on the east side of Madison a few times when I lived there, but the place was pretty desolate. I've been in livelier K-Marts.

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Re: Prariefire at Lionsgate - large mixed use development

Postby mistervinix » Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:44 pm

They don't expect to break ground until next Spring ("construction to begin in the first quarter") for the final phase? Seems like an unusually long delay, considering the previous (revised) final phase was going to break ground last fall. That's another nine months of a weedy field in the middle of the development.

But I am glad to see the "clearance" business with the movie theater has been resolved. What a concept - letting a theater play whatever it wants and let the people decide which location to patronize.

As to the shuttered Fresh Market, I bet they're looking at something like a Bed, Bath & Beyond-type store to replace it.

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Re: Prariefire at Lionsgate - large mixed use development

Postby mgsports » Tue Jun 14, 2016 5:04 pm

Homegoods? Old Time Pottery? Stage? Bealls? Belk? Bloomingdales? Meijer? BAM? Gohastings? HHGREGG?

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Re: Prariefire at Lionsgate - large mixed use development

Postby longviewmo » Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:39 pm

They've paid absolutely no interest on the bonds so far. http://www.kansascity.com/news/business ... 58907.html

The "museum" has also taken out a multi-million dollar loan.

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Re: Prariefire at Lionsgate - large mixed use development

Postby mgsports » Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:44 pm

http://x.lnimg.com/attachments/940C8695 ... 048260.pdf H and M,Chuy's,Microsoft,Beauty Brands and so on.


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