Major road improvements on I-35/291 corridor

[Slobberknockers]

This will be some much needed improvements for this intersection/overpass.

http://www.modot.mo.gov/kansascity/majo ... eeting.htm

[SWFan]

While it will help, I'm afraid that intersection is quickly turning into I-35/MO-152 part duex. I just hate it when I have to go into Liberty, its either a pain getting in or a pain getting out, or you get screwed going both ways.

I do welcome this expansion, as well as the Flintlock flyover.

Regarding the Flintlock flyover I wish it included extending Liberty Pkwy over to 291. Right now, if you want to get over to 291 from the southern part of Liberty you basically have to drive practically all the way north back to 152 to catch 291.

[flyingember]

I'm from Liberty and they need to put in another flyover between 291 and 152.

South Liberty Parkway would more or less give a direct road from Antioch to 291 without having to go north to 152.
There's one way to get to 291 without 152 right now but it's not an improvement.

Liberty is the result of their roads being based off the old mid-1800 system. They all went out from the city center to different places. Then when the city grew not enough planning meant they didn't build a good ring road system. You have to go towards the center and back out in too many places.

[TheSpaceCowboy]

I think the intersection of 291 and Glenn Hendren Drive should be changed so it's a 'right for Glenn Hendren, Nashua Road, hospital, left for I-35, 291 to 435 and KCI' situation. Now, it really doesn't support the traffic that goes from 291 onto glenn hendren.

[TheSpaceCowboy]

And I agree with Fyingember on there being a way to 291 from south liberty parkway, via holt drive to birmingham road to Ruth Ewing, but it sends people through a residential neighborhood and is rarely quicker for me.

[zlohban]

Liberty is the result of their roads being based off the old mid-1800 system. They all went out from the city center to different places. Then when the city grew not enough planning meant they didn't build a good ring road system. You have to go towards the center and back out in too many places.

Partly true.

Liberty for many years has tried excessively but ineffectively to remain a small town, county seat, not a suburb. If you research you will find attempted plans to always maintain green space between Liberty and it's neighbors. Of course we know they failed on the west by not annexing before KC did in the 50's. Liberty also has actively prevented neighboring communities from attaching continuous city roads. Allowing only access from state highways or old state highways that the city adopted. Any street that connects to the little burb of Glenaire has a permanent roadblock on the Liberty side.

The flyover will bring much diversity to the Liberty road system. It will be the first non-highway connection to the "West". When I first moved here I found it odd but later a city councilman explained the Liberty theory of highly controlled growth. He said that house construction must be instep with business construction. Real estate taxes alone will not maintain a new street or educate students properly.

Back to roads. At one time in Liberty, and I have never asked others about this, I would often see the police with minorities, often with families, or certain types of cars, often youth, pulled along the sides of the road at the Liberty "Gateways". Even on MO152 in front of the old Clayview Club before 152 got so congested.

One example that has stuck in my mind, it was early evening in the fall, I was waiting for my kids in a school parking lot. A group of minority young adults were sitting along the road. I would often see these groups come to Liberty in a big white van and they would be selling door to door. Anyway, a police car sat along the side of the road after a big white van stopped and picked the group up the policeman moved.

I would be interested if anyone else ever witnessed this activity.

[TheSpaceCowboy]

Zlohban,
I had always thought that the roadblocks in Glenaire were the work of Glenaire, for some reason. Also, when did you talk to the councilman about that? It seems like the city fairly botched their growth philosophy in recent years.

[flyingember]

I really don't see how Glenaire could have roadblocks.

the only street worth connecting to when they put their city together was MO 10.

the connections on the east and west side date to the 90s or later.

[TheSpaceCowboy]

To zhloban: If you go from kansas south towards Liberty HS on Blue Jay Dr, there are still signs posted that say: NO TRESPASSING- PROPERTY OF CLAYVIEW CC- how many years after it's been torn down?

On Glenaire- I thought that the builders of the subdivisions put up the roadblocks- To keep the wonderfully eclectic and diverse housing stock of the weird little town of Glenaire out of their perfect little developments.

[zlohban]

To zhloban: If you go from kansas south towards Liberty HS on Blue Jay Dr, there are still signs posted that say: NO TRESPASSING- PROPERTY OF CLAYVIEW CC- how many years after it's been torn down?

On Glenaire- I thought that the builders of the subdivisions put up the roadblocks- To keep the wonderfully eclectic and diverse housing stock of the weird little town of Glenaire out of their perfect little developments.

I doubt that the newer Liberty subdivision streets would even line up correctly with the Glenaire roads, most have ditches instead of curbs.

I haven't noticed the Clayview sign. I do know they once had a hotel lined up for the remaining land. That obviously didn't happen.

[flyingember]

To zhloban: If you go from kansas south towards Liberty HS on Blue Jay Dr, there are still signs posted that say: NO TRESPASSING- PROPERTY OF CLAYVIEW CC- how many years after it's been torn down?

On Glenaire- I thought that the builders of the subdivisions put up the roadblocks- To keep the wonderfully eclectic and diverse housing stock of the weird little town of Glenaire out of their perfect little developments.

I doubt that the newer Liberty subdivision streets would even line up correctly with the Glenaire roads, most have ditches instead of curbs.

there are exactly 8 places where a street goes in the right direction to connect to Liberty had they planned to.

keep in mind street connections are about controlling flow. send people to the higher speed through street over going through a neighborhood. much of Overland Park's grid is designed to do this

2x of them connect to Liberty drive
1x connects south toward S. Liberty Parkway
2x go to the west and one was connected. the second connection would be redundant and unnecessary and just means 2 less homes
1x goes north towards Canterbury. Liberty wouldn't have gained any time or distance savings at the time and thus had no incentive to connect
4x to the east. two of those would require tearing out a house. that leaves 2x possible

Of those remaining two possible connections one was put in and has a barricade. there's no need for the other at that point as it just means less homes.

removing the barricade would do nothing for distances going to the south or to the north.

what it does do is keep people in Glenaire from using the Liberty subdivision as a shortcut to the middle school and Liberty from using Glenaire as a shortcut to Liberty Drive.

functionally that's it.

[GRID]

Liberty is definitely a different culture. It looks like they have finally given in and realized that they are in fact a suburb and are part of the metro area. It’s still interesting how much they have resisted growth though. The city is still only about 30k residents I think.

For a rather sought after area of the metro to basically not grow over the past 20 years is pretty incredible. Look as similar suburbs around the metro (Lee’s Summit, Blue Springs, Olathe etc) You would think Liberty would have at least 60-70k by now. I guess it does, but nearly all the growth has occurred west of 35 in KCMO despite the poor local roads connecting the two sides of the “Liberty Area”.

It’s still surprising that to this day, Liberty and KCMO are not putting a lot more effort into bridging 35. Bad regional planning is going to be what eventually slows growth in that area and northland growth will shift from Shoal Creek to the areas west of 169.

After decades of doing the bare minimum with its northland, KCMO is developing a very comprehensive arterial roadway system north of 152 and that area will become developed out. In 20 years, Liberty will probably be just a little bigger than it is today and that’s probably just fine with them.

[TheSpaceCowboy]

+1 on the planning bit, that's been their downfall for some time now.

[flyingember]

After decades of doing the bare minimum with its northland, KCMO is developing a very comprehensive arterial roadway system north of 152 and that area will become developed out. In 20 years, Liberty will probably be just a little bigger than it is today and that’s probably just fine with them.

Liberty has plans to grow by 50% with South Liberty Parkway once it's completed and there's the homes need.

[TheSpaceCowboy]

I can't see Liberty becoming much bigger and more built out into the county without major growing pains and problems. We shall see...

[SWFan]

...without major growing pains and problems. We shall see...

In my opinion Liberty already has growing pains and problems. I hate it every time I have to drive over I-35 to get into Liberty, it's just such a CF.

[flyingember]

...without major growing pains and problems. We shall see...

In my opinion Liberty already has growing pains and problems. I hate it every time I have to drive over I-35 to get into Liberty, it's just such a CF.

Unfortuantly that's mostly a Kansas City caused problem. Liberty is less than 30K people yet Shoal Creek is at what, 30-40K? The school district went on record that the KC part of the district is right at half the student population despite being a minority of land space the district has.

this map is a good visual aid of the population of the area
http://www.liberty.k12.mo.us/parents/au ... l-for-2013

pick the 6-8 option. notice how four roughly equally sized schools are so uneven in the area they're planning to serve

why does this help explain traffic problems? because 6-8th graders are a few years away from a home having 3+ drivers.

[TheSpaceCowboy]

Yes, very true. As has been pointed out before, Liberty resisted development for years until the area west of I-35 started being built up. Growing pains that Liberty did not ask for.