NEW Independence Center tenants

[kcjak]

From some who were interviewed it did appear the victims were white but can't be 100% sure. And it does not appear to be gang related, just youths trying to protect their pride.

The news report I heard said the couple that was shot was entering the mall and the shooter said something about the female's ass. Her boyfriend responded back to the shooter and another run-in took place later in the mall when the couple and the shooter crossed paths and he shot them.

[mean]

"I am going to act in a completely inappropriate and disrespectful manner, and you had better not express displeasure at my antics or I am liable to shoot you."

Sounds like someone had shitty parents.

[GRID]

Thoughts on the shooting over the weekend? Will this be a death knell for Independence Center as it was for Bannister Mall or will it be able to withstand the negative story?

Did the incident at Ward Parkway Shopping Center become its death knell?

Security will be beefed up and teens and young adults (especially blacks) will be especially targeted.

BM's main problem was being an isolated retail center in an area that was experiencing a downturn in its makeup. WP is located in a more stable neighborhood with better demographics than what is in the BM area. IC is in the middle of a major commercial area.

The thing to see is if people from Odessa and Higginsville will be too scared to come to IC. Can't they just put in some kind of curfew like other malls have done. BM was also located on a main bus line and the suburban white shoppers from Belton and Lees Summit were scared of anyone of a different color and lead to gang rumors. Oak Park would have this problem if it was located on a bus line from Eastern KCK. IM will probably survive as long the nearby apartments aren't converted to Section 8 and live to be killed to malls by in Grain Valley.

This is the big issue. I know a lot of people in east jax and my wife's family is all over the area between grain valley and columbia.

The people I know in east jax seem to all be blowing this off, but those that live outside the metro already don't care to go west of Blue Springs. They are all eating up the new stores and strip malls along adams dairy parkway etc.

I think the mall will be fine though. While most people in metro kc look down on independence, the mall area is generally cherished by most people that live east of 435 and they won't let something like this stop them from going there.

[pstokely]

BM's main problem was being an isolated retail center in an area that was experiencing a downturn in its makeup. WP is located in a more stable neighborhood with better demographics than what is in the BM area. IC is in the middle of a major commercial area.[/quote]

The thing to see is if people from Odessa and Higginsville will be too scared to come to IC. Can't they just put in some kind of curfew like other malls have done. BM was also located on a main bus line and the suburban white shoppers from Belton and Lees Summit were scared of anyone of a different color and lead to gang rumors. Oak Park would have this problem if it was located on a bus line from Eastern KCK. IM will probably survive as long the nearby apartments aren't converted to Section 8 and live to be killed to malls by in Grain Valley.[/quote]

This is the big issue. I know a lot of people in east jax and my wife's family is all over the area between grain valley and columbia.

The people I know in east jax seem to all be blowing this off, but those that live outside the metro already don't care to go west of Blue Springs. They are all eating up the new stores and strip malls along adams dairy parkway etc.

I think the mall will be fine though. While most people in metro kc look down on independence, the mall area is generally cherished by most people that live east of 435 and they won't let something like this stop them from going there.[/quote]


Most the isults about "Methdependence" comes from isolate Johnson County KU fans who never go East the stadiums or North of River other than the airport. Anything east of the state line or ghetto or white trash in their mind.

[GRID]

Most the isults about "Methdependence" comes from isolate Johnson County KU fans who never go East the stadiums or North of River other than the airport. Anything east of the state line or ghetto or white trash in their mind.

If had said that.... but you will probably get a free pass. I agree though, I have never heard such comments from people in the northland or even central kcmo. They have always been from the joco crowd and you are right, those that say things like that rarely go east of Wornall (except to the stadiums or worlds of fun once in a while). Most people that do go to Indep Center, go to Oak Park Mall too, but you hardly ever see JO cars east of the sports complex. But I said most of metro KC keep from being personally insulted in return.

[kcjak]

I don't think most 'Joco KU fans' would be driving 30 minutes past Oak Park to go to Indep Center anyway. Anyone who thinks IC has better stores or better product in those stores is high.

[chingon]

I agree though, I have never heard such comments from people in the northland or even central kcmo.

I have. And quite frequently. Especially from Northlanders. In fact, the Northlanders I know -- which, as a civil servant, is a lot -- overwhelmingly shit on everything south of the river. And as someone who currently and for the past decade has lived in the urban core, I can assure you that many urban core residents also perpetuate the stereotype that Independence is a trashy, meth-addled, poor white version of KCK and that east Jackson county in general is a kind of low-rent, failed JoCo.

Sorry to have to keep calling you on your bullshit. But you won't quit repeating it.

[GRID]

Most the isults about "Methdependence" comes from isolate Johnson County KU fans who never go East the stadiums or North of River other than the airport. Anything east of the state line or ghetto or white trash in their mind.

Told ya you would get a free pass!

"most" come from JoCo by a wide margin. I don't care what chigon says.

[chingon]

Pitiful.

[pstokely]

I don't think most 'Joco KU fans' would be driving 30 minutes past Oak Park to go to Indep Center anyway. Anyone who thinks IC has better stores or better product in those stores is high.

Their views about Independence come from the 1 or 2 yearly meth busts the news reports

[MoMan]

I have. And quite frequently. Especially from Northlanders. In fact, the Northlanders I know -- which, as a civil servant, is a lot -- overwhelmingly shit on everything south of the river. And as someone who currently and for the past decade has lived in the urban core, I can assure you that many urban core residents also perpetuate the stereotype that Independence is a trashy, meth-addled, poor white version of KCK and that east Jackson county in general is a kind of low-rent, failed JoCo.

Sorry to have to keep calling you on your bullshit. But you won't quit repeating it.

All the ridiculous anecdotal crap you reliably pull out of your ass and fling onto message boards doesn't make your posts any less authoritative. You understand that, right?

[chingon]

And pitifuller.

[MoMan]

Deluded and insecure. ^^^

[mean]

I kind of hate to agree with chingon, but that has been my experience, as well. Hell, I grew up in Independence, and we called it Meth Dependence. Does JoCo even have a Hocker Heights?

[chrizow]

i grew up in raytown, and we called it methdependence too. we also made fun of raytown. people make fun of everything.

and there is no doubt that people in the urban core make fun of independence, when they think about it at all. if we need something in the burbs, we don't go all the way out to independence to get it when JoCo is as close, or closer, and has more and better options for dining and retail. my wife recently had to schlep out to bass pro in independence to get a last-minute item before a vacation, and she may as well have been going to the moon. couple this physical distance with the longstanding unfortunate stereotyping of that area (redneck, meth, etc.) and it's not really an appealing option. the mall area and the 40/291 area is just schlocky suburban crap you get in olathe or barry rd or whatever, but maybe even more soul-crushing to go to. and just about everyone on my mom's side of the family lives out in the indy/LS/BS/oak grove area.

as for northlanders hating on south of the river, i have to admit that the feeling is mutual. for some reason, the northland just seems like an entirely different city altogether. i hate going up there with a passion. other than the charming bits of weston or parkville and environs, the northland is barely-average suburbia with almost no sidewalks.

[shinatoo]

Why would you ever make fun of Raytown? That really hurts.

[chrizow]

Why would you ever make fun of Raytown? That really hurts.

haha. coming of age in raytowna in the 80s-90s, one has to have a sense of humor about it all. bear in mind that we also "cruised" noland in VW Golfs with insane soundsystems and hung out on murkins rd., participated in taco eating contests at las chilis after some herbal enhancement, etc., so it's like we were completely immersed in the "lifestyle" whilst also realizing that the raytown/indy area is just bizarre.

[GRID]

I know you guys are all basically about downtown and joco, but come back down to earth. You hate going north of the river? 470/40 is like going to the moon? That is hilarious if you ask me. The downtown population is pretty small. Nearly everybody in metro KC Lives in the suburbs or areas of the city that most people wouldn't choose to live. Even the so called downtown population is not mostly condo dwelling 20somethings living the urban dream but rather poor people that don't have a choice because it includes so much area.

I hate to rip on downtown, I think it has come a long way, a very long way. But wow, you guys are acting like you live in downtown chicago or backbay boston. You still live in KC and places like Indep Center and Barry Rd are freaking 15 minutes from downtown (even during rush hour). It's not like you are making a trek to long island or orange county. I'm not fan of bass pro, but my 8 year old could find a 200,000 sq ft store that is right on I-70. Just take 70 east to exit 14 and make a left where it says bass pro! Really not that complicated and I doubt you be be attacked by a pick up full of shirtless rednecks in the process nor will you even look out of place! Raytown is no more redneck than most of suburban KC. I grew up in urban kcmo before moving to SKC then back to the urban core and then on to the LS/BS area and I never noticed anything that would make me call the area methapendence and if I were actually from Independence I would be insulted by people making such comments. But that's just me.

Most of my relatives are in either central kcmo or eastern jackson county or the northland. It's about a 3 way split and I can tell you that none of them disrespect or avoid the other part of town. I will tell you that most don't care for JoCo whether they live in Hyde Park or Lakewood or Parkville. They are just more passive about it than me .

KC is what it is. Independence has its good areas and bad areas. But it's far from the most "bizarre" suburb. That title goes to KCK. KCK is one of the most bizarre places you will find in a major metro area anyplace. Olathe is a dressed up and enlarged Raytown and with lot of JoCo wannabes that can't afford Blue Valley. Cass County is country culture etc.

It's good that a few thousand of you live downtown, but the way you guys rip on eastern jax and praise joco is just weird to me because joco has done far more harm to kcmo than places like lee's summit and liberty could ever do.

Just saying.

[chrizow]

I know you guys are all basically about downtown and joco, but come back down to earth. You hate going north of the river? 470/40 is like going to the moon? That is hilarious if you ask me. The downtown population is pretty small. Nearly everybody in metro KC Lives in the suburbs or areas of the city that most people wouldn't choose to live. Even the so called downtown population is not mostly condo dwelling 20somethings living the urban dream but rather poor people that don't have a choice because it includes so much area.

I hate to rip on downtown, I think it has come a long way, a very long way. But wow, you guys are acting like you live in downtown chicago or backbay boston. You still live in KC and places like Indep Center and Barry Rd are freaking 15 minutes from downtown (even during rush hour). Raytown is no more redneck than most of suburban KC. I grew up in urban kcmo before moving to SKC then back to the urban core and then on to the LS/BS area and I never noticed anything that would make me call the area methapendence and if I were actually from Independence I would be insulted by people making such comments. But that's just me.

Most of my relatives are in either central kcmo or eastern jackson county or the northland. It's about a 3 way split and I can tell you that none of them disrespect or avoid the other part of town. I will tell you that most don't care for JoCo whether they live in Hyde Park or Lakewood or Parkville. They are just more passive about it than me .

KC is what it is. Independence has it good areas and bad areas. But it's far from the most "bizarre" suburb. That title goes to KCK. KCK is one of the most bizarre places you will fine in a major metro area anyplace. Olathe is a dressed up and enlarged Raytown and with lot of JoCo wannabes that can't afford Blue Valley. Cass County is country culture etc.

It's good that a few thousand of you live downtown, but the way you guys rip on eastern jax and praise joco is just weird to me because joco had done far more harm to kcmo than places like lee's summit and liberty could ever do.

Just saying.

for me, it's not about "praising" JoCo and hating the MO-side burbs. i don't like to be in the suburbs at all, and we only go there maybe once or twice a month. but there is really no question at all that the JoCo side burbs are (a) more connected to the midtown/plaza area where i actually live, and (b) afford a greater diversity of dining and retail options. if we didn't shop at whole foods for groceries, we would go to JoCo on the blue moon that we need something at a big box store like Best Buy or whatever.

i dont think anyone is suggesting that everyone up north "hates" south of the river, or that everyone in the burbs "hates" the urban core, or that everyone in the urban core "hates" the MO or KS side burbs. i am just saying that it is a fact that people i grew up with made fun of independence, just as people from other parts of the metro made fun of raytown. people in south joco are sometimes disparaging of north joco or olathe. and on and on. territoriality is nothing new.

i am not comparing living in the urban core of KCMO to places like boston or chicago at all. going to bass pro was like "going to the moon" for my wife b/c it was probably the only occasion in her entire lifetime when she has gone out there on her own. it's 15 miles, and about 25 minutes, away from midtown, so about the same time it takes to get to south OP or olathe.

while i recognize the shortcomings of stereotypes and hate to use them, you really don't know why someone (from anywhere) might call independence "methdependence?" for one, the independence PD busted hundreds of labs a year for several years in a row, so that's a pretty decent reason. also, there is also no doubt that it is home to tens of thousands of working class white folks that people might be inclined to call "white trash" or "rednecks" or whatever. i don't really look at it that way, other than jokingly making fun of the area the same way i can poke fun at the culture of raytown, b/c those working class white east Jax folks are my family and friends.

i also delivered mail in independence and sugar creek on college breaks, so i got to see, first-hand and on foot, how "bizarre" that place can be. i am sure KCK can give it a run for its money, though. (i am just now reminded of the occasion where i delivered mail to a gentleman's house, and he literally whistled out the (open screen) door at me, like a cat-call. i wasn't sure that i really heard it, so i kept going. 5 seconds later, i am on my way to the next house and i look back to see the guy peering at me from behind the broken-down old RV that is sitting in his yard, and he literally shouts something to me like "hey there, pretty lady, come back here!" i turn around to see a filthy, red-headed man in his underwear and dirty white tube socks, maybe 35 years old, missing several teeth. at this point, he realizes that the lithe, tanned figure who just delivered his mail is not some east jax harlot, but in fact a fine upstanding college man uninterested in his rather ludicrous advances. he realized his mistake, mumbled something, and just walked back into his house to continue watching judge joe brown, or porn, or whatever. i found it hilarious, and it was one of probably 500 incidents in independence that made me realize that there was something to the stereotype. that said, it could have happened in several areas of the metro, and of course most of the folks i met on the route were totally normal, just like people anywhere.)

[GRID]

Well, I have maybe been to Sugar Creek once in my life and it didn't look much different than some of those places in western wyco like Edwardsville.

I have just never understood how the MO side suburbs have always taken on the "sugar creek" stereotype when so much of it is no different than most of joco while the KS side takes on the "leawood" stereotype when so much of it is just like lee's summit or blue springs and KCK is ignored.

KCK is pretty much never part of the discussion about the KS side. Now people even praise KCK just because they built a bunch of crap out in BFE.

The KS side has all kinds of issues. The poaching, the freeloading, the complete lack of regional cooperation and KCK which is a total and complete joke. JoCo can't or won't cooperate with the region and still can't stand on its own feet without poaching off of kcmo even after decades of growth at kcmo's expense. KCK?

Bottom line is that the KS side of KC has just as many issues as the MO side does.

I understand that joco flows with urban kcmo. When we lived in the city, we spent most of our suburban time there too. But that doesn't change anything and I certainly didn't think higher of the area. It was just closer or more accessible and when we could we would go the extra effort to zona rosa or idnep center just to keep our sales taxes in MO where they would fund kcmo things rather than the pot used to poach kcmo businesses.