Independence Center

Jackson/Cass Suburbs, including South KC
empires228
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Independence Center

Post by empires228 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:22 am

http://www.kansascity.com/news/business ... 20274.html Simon is going to default on the malls loan. Looks like Oak Park will be the last true mall in the metro to fall after all.

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Re: Independence Center

Post by shinatoo » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:48 am

Tear it down and give Cerner a big ass loan.
Quocunque Jeceris Stabit

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Re: Independence Center

Post by brewcrew1000 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:02 am

I don't think the mall will go away, they will probably just try to restructure the loan or something. It kills me though, Herbert Simon, net worth 2.7 billion USD why can't he just pay it with his own cash?

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Re: Independence Center

Post by earthling » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:04 am

Curious that some investors are still trying to make last century mall concept work. Not worth the risk.

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Re: Independence Center

Post by flyingember » Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:11 pm

brewcrew1000 wrote:I don't think the mall will go away, they will probably just try to restructure the loan or something. It kills me though, Herbert Simon, net worth 2.7 billion USD why can't he just pay it with his own cash?
net worth <> cash on hand.

A large portion of his value is probably tied up in the equity value of the businesses and investments. Likely would need to sell to be able to afford to pay off the loan.

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Re: Independence Center

Post by aknowledgeableperson » Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:37 pm

Some other entity will buy it and rejuvenate it to compete with all of the surrounding retail around it. And it will probably succeed.

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Re: Independence Center

Post by flyingember » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:18 am

They'll tear the mall down and put in a mixed use development.

See Antioch Center, Metro North Mall for recent examples

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Re: Independence Center

Post by empires228 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:45 am

brewcrew1000 wrote:I don't think the mall will go away, they will probably just try to restructure the loan or something. It kills me though, Herbert Simon, net worth 2.7 billion USD why can't he just pay it with his own cash?
No, it will just fade away slowly like Metro North. I don't see it tanking fast like Bannister and Metcalf South, but getting dropped by Simon hasn't worked out too well for malls in Wichita, Aurora, Topeka, and Albuquerque, and Simon spun those off to a different company rather than default on their loan.

aknowledgeableperson wrote:Some other entity will buy it and rejuvenate it to compete with all of the surrounding retail around it. And it will probably succeed.
This will be the malls fourth owner and there are quite a few less companies out there these days. The companies that the mall no longer exists, the company that built Oak Park-Leavenworth Plaza-Mission Center no longer deals in malls, MD is.... Look at Metro North, Metcalf South and Google West Minster Mall, Southwyck Mall, and Buckingham Square to get into that mess, and GGP had its chance to pick up Oak Park and Independence Center in the last 20 years and didn't. CBL, the owner of Oak Park Mall, might buy them, but security will take big cuts. If anyone besides GGP or CBL buys them, the mall will continue to slowly sink. I'm sure people though that no one would let Metro North get that bad, especially since it had access to better demographics than Independence Center.

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Re: Independence Center

Post by aknowledgeableperson » Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:26 am

New owners could rejuvenate the mall much like was done with Ward Parkway. True, there isn't that much close-by competition to Ward Parkway but new owners could possibly pick it up on the cheap and have funds left over for a make-over.
Was at the IC last Christmas season and I don't remember seeing an unusual amount of vacant storefronts.

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Re: Independence Center

Post by empires228 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:25 pm

aknowledgeableperson wrote:New owners could rejuvenate the mall much like was done with Ward Parkway. True, there isn't that much close-by competition to Ward Parkway but new owners could possibly pick it up on the cheap and have funds left over for a make-over.
Was at the IC last Christmas season and I don't remember seeing an unusual amount of vacant storefronts.
Ah, but that's a bad time to go. Temp tenants always show up for the Holiday. Stuff like Go Games Books and Toys and Toys R Us Express come in and are gone by February. Ward Parkway Center isn't really a mall, but is a good example of how to save one. The interior is still dead (and could be worse if Rue 21 and Claire's liquidate before 2018 as expected), but it's a good example of how to reconfigure a building. Ward Parkway was killed by changing demographics to the east of the mall, Mission Center Mall, Metcalf South, and then Town Center Plaza put the nail in the coffin for it and Metcalf South in the 90's. Oak Park Mall and Zona Rosa have better immediate demographics to pull from, and their tenant roster shows that.

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Re: Independence Center

Post by nomadcowatbk » Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:23 pm


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Re: Independence Center

Post by jbean3535 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:42 pm

nomadcowatbk wrote:who owns the mall now?
http://www.kmbc.com/article/future-of-i ... e/15949821
I'm hearing that it was foreclosed on and the bank is now re-negotiating leases, which is why so many stores are beginning to flock (Aldo, Things Remembered). The "A SIMON MALL" logo found around all the Independence Center signage was removed as well.

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Re: Independence Center

Post by nomadcowatbk » Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:24 am

jbean3535 wrote:
nomadcowatbk wrote:who owns the mall now?
http://www.kmbc.com/article/future-of-i ... e/15949821
I'm hearing that it was foreclosed on and the bank is now re-negotiating leases, which is why so many stores are beginning to flock (Aldo, Things Remembered). The "A SIMON MALL" logo found around all the Independence Center signage was removed as well.
what bank?

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Re: Independence Center

Post by jbean3535 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:51 am

nomadcowatbk wrote:
jbean3535 wrote:
nomadcowatbk wrote:who owns the mall now?
http://www.kmbc.com/article/future-of-i ... e/15949821
I'm hearing that it was foreclosed on and the bank is now re-negotiating leases, which is why so many stores are beginning to flock (Aldo, Things Remembered). The "A SIMON MALL" logo found around all the Independence Center signage was removed as well.
what bank?
Whoever the lender was that allowed Simon to fall so far behind on payments.

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Re: Independence Center

Post by empires228 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:53 am

jbean3535 wrote:
nomadcowatbk wrote:who owns the mall now?
http://www.kmbc.com/article/future-of-i ... e/15949821
I'm hearing that it was foreclosed on and the bank is now re-negotiating leases, which is why so many stores are beginning to flock (Aldo, Things Remembered). The "A SIMON MALL" logo found around all the Independence Center signage was removed as well.

So, it sounds like the metro is going to be down to Crown Center, Mill Walk Mall, and The Landing for indoor malls in the near future...

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Re: Independence Center

Post by flyingember » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:21 am

empires228 wrote:
jbean3535 wrote:
nomadcowatbk wrote:who owns the mall now?
http://www.kmbc.com/article/future-of-i ... e/15949821
I'm hearing that it was foreclosed on and the bank is now re-negotiating leases, which is why so many stores are beginning to flock (Aldo, Things Remembered). The "A SIMON MALL" logo found around all the Independence Center signage was removed as well.

So, it sounds like the metro is going to be down to Crown Center, Mill Walk Mall, and The Landing for indoor malls in the near future...
Oak Park Mall?

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Re: Independence Center

Post by LCDSI » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:01 pm

Here's an article in the KC Star about the foreclosure. Not a good sign. It seems like another enclosed mall in KC might bite the dust.

http://www.kansascity.com/news/business ... 43414.html

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Re: Independence Center

Post by GRID » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:23 pm

LCDSI wrote:Here's an article in the KC Star about the foreclosure. Not a good sign. It seems like another enclosed mall in KC might bite the dust.

http://www.kansascity.com/news/business ... 43414.html
Didn't this mall recently add two major tenants (Dicks and H&M)? And isn't is nearly fully leased? I mean typically malls see a several years of vacancy issues and what not before they start to fail. I think the press needs to be careful or they could start to scare people away and actually cause a problem that doesn't really exist today. It sounds like Simon just doesn't want to pay the debt service for this mall anymore and it has little to do with how the mall is actually doing.

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Re: Independence Center

Post by LCDSI » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:45 pm

GRID wrote:
LCDSI wrote:Here's an article in the KC Star about the foreclosure. Not a good sign. It seems like another enclosed mall in KC might bite the dust.

http://www.kansascity.com/news/business ... 43414.html
Didn't this mall recently add two major tenants (Dicks and H&M)? And isn't is nearly fully leased? I mean typically malls see a several years of vacancy issues and what not before they start to fail. I think the press needs to be careful or they could start to scare people away and actually cause a problem that doesn't really exist today. It sounds like Simon just doesn't want to pay the debt service for this mall anymore and it has little to do with how the mall is actually doing.
I hope that's the case. I would think a market our size would be able to sustain two enclosed malls especially since they're on different sides of the metro.

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Re: Independence Center

Post by GRID » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:02 pm

LCDSI wrote:
GRID wrote:
LCDSI wrote:Here's an article in the KC Star about the foreclosure. Not a good sign. It seems like another enclosed mall in KC might bite the dust.

http://www.kansascity.com/news/business ... 43414.html
Didn't this mall recently add two major tenants (Dicks and H&M)? And isn't is nearly fully leased? I mean typically malls see a several years of vacancy issues and what not before they start to fail. I think the press needs to be careful or they could start to scare people away and actually cause a problem that doesn't really exist today. It sounds like Simon just doesn't want to pay the debt service for this mall anymore and it has little to do with how the mall is actually doing.
I hope that's the case. I would think a market our size would be able to sustain two enclosed malls especially since they're on different sides of the metro.
The problem with KC is the metro retail market is so overbuilt. I mean it's crazy how much retail space there is in KC and nearly all of it is subsidized, especially the newer stuff in affluent parts of JoCo. It's bizarre.

Everybody loves to say malls are dead and yea, a great many of them have failed, but most metro areas still have at least a few thriving regional malls. They may not have nearly as many as they once did, but malls are still very popular. Here in the DC area, there are several malls that have had troubles, but there are also some that seem stronger than ever.

Metro KC has got to stop giving tax breaks and other incentives for new retail development. That's what is going to kill both Oak Park Mall and Independence Center, not Amazon or whatever.

I see they are complaining about Zona Rosa not making it. Yet, there is new retail going up all over the place up there. Back fill what you have before building new and for the love of god, stop subsidizing the new stuff.
Last edited by GRID on Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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