KCRag Forum

flyingember wrote:KC won't get what it lost and we wouldn't want to. KC was a manufacturing center.
Remember that the crossroads was mostly industrial.

I was referring to lost buildings and people using them in the north loop.
What is now the north loop was never a "manufacturing center."
If the interstate is dismantled and returned to the street grid, new development can restore what was lost before.
The interstate itself is taking up 35 acres and we are all aware of the acres of surface parking lots south of the interstate.
From the River Market, West Bottoms, West Side and east Crossroads (especially east) there is enough free land to build taller, denser residential to house another 50,000. Then there's south of Crown Center, 31st & Main that still has tons of open surface lots.

earthling wrote: Only chance might be if Cerner struggles to get talent or people specifically quit because of the location and poorly executed environment.

And/or they realize they built in the middle of a wasteland and that their employees hate it.

SWFan wrote:

earthling wrote:In Cerner's case they are going after college grads who would more likely want to live downtown anyway. And downtown is getting schools and developing towards family living anyway, so many may not 'grow out of city living', as it this the case with professional leaning families in much larger cities.

I see people stating this, but our company's experience has been different. Most of the college grads we are picking up seem to like the JoCo suburbs. I will say, most of our grads are coming from midwestern colleges and Cerner might be picking up east/west coaster who are used to more urban-centric cities which might make an impact on the preference for suburb vs downtown living.

I would imagine that those "midwestern" college kids are more of the boomerang children that have moved back in w/ their parents in order to save for their first place or get on their feet. I did it for a year.

atticus23 wrote:

SWFan wrote:

earthling wrote:In Cerner's case they are going after college grads who would more likely want to live downtown anyway. And downtown is getting schools and developing towards family living anyway, so many may not 'grow out of city living', as it this the case with professional leaning families in much larger cities.

I see people stating this, but our company's experience has been different. Most of the college grads we are picking up seem to like the JoCo suburbs. I will say, most of our grads are coming from midwestern colleges and Cerner might be picking up east/west coaster who are used to more urban-centric cities which might make an impact on the preference for suburb vs downtown living.

I would imagine that those "midwestern" college kids are more of the boomerang children that have moved back in w/ their parents in order to save for their first place or get on their feet. I did it for a year.

if they have a steady income, wouldn't they move out or do they just plan on spending a few years in the boring subdivisions they grew up in to save up for a place in another boring subdivision? schools are still an issue, especially if you lose the charter school lottery

flyingember wrote:Here's a piece from a couple years ago. Near neighborhoods and near suburbs seem to be the big winner at 3x downtown nationwide.
So there appears to be a trend against the far suburbs so Prairie Village over Olathe is the most logical.

https://gizmodo.com/millennials-will-li ... 74100?null

We fit this mold. I'm right on the oldest edge of the millennial and fit it culturally more than the generation before. We live in Briarcliff 5 miles from downtown. We like the neighborhood, schools, having the green space and shopping options but still have easy access to urban amenities. (It's effectively as close to downtown as UMKC is)

I live in the Northland myself (work in JoCo Corp Woods though) and pretty much you can live at the farthest reaches of the Northland and still be closer to downtown KCMO than 3/4 of JoCo. What the Northland needs is more businesses. It is getting really ridiculous in JoCo. So many jobs in southern JoCo that living in Miami County, KS is a reality for many folks working down here.

SWFan wrote:

earthling wrote:In Cerner's case they are going after college grads who would more likely want to live downtown anyway. And downtown is getting schools and developing towards family living anyway, so many may not 'grow out of city living', as it this the case with professional leaning families in much larger cities.

I see people stating this, but our company's experience has been different. Most of the college grads we are picking up seem to like the JoCo suburbs. I will say, most of our grads are coming from midwestern colleges and Cerner might be picking up east/west coaster who are used to more urban-centric cities which might make an impact on the preference for suburb vs downtown living.

I think urbanists on this site see all the very exciting growth in the urban core, coupled with near-daily internet articles talking about how millennials want to live in cities, and forget that the vast majority of young adults in KC are still settling in the suburbs. I think without question a rapidly growing slice of that population is choosing to live in the city, but i'm guessing for every recent college grad (or other 20-something) moving downtown there are still 2-3 moving to JoCo, northland, East Jax, wherever. Not to mention the fact that a huge portion of the urbanites living downtown in their 20s will, eventually, move to the burbs (even if it's PV or Briarcliff).

just anecdotally, literally no one in my extended family under 40 (or over 40 for that matter) lives anywhere near the city. also, no one in my workplace of approximately 40 attorneys, and at least that many staff employees, lives in KCMO other than myself and a few others in BKS/Waldo. More specifically, out of probably 20 attorneys we have under 40, only maybe 4-5 live in BKS/Waldo and the rest live in JoCo.

Yeah I didn't mean to imply all Millennials want to live in the city, but statistically speaking, more and more are interested in staying in the city with kids (not most) and downtowns are starting to accommodate, such as with reasonably better schools in office buildings, which KC is doing. It is a real trend across the US.

Something seems to be delaying this project. Are there any signs of the next phase starting? This is supposed to be a ten year build out, but in order to do that, they would need to basically go from one phase directly to the next, not have years (or even months) of inactivity between phases.

I'm holding out hope that Cerner could do something downtown and reduce the scale of the bannister complex. A 50 story 750k to 1 million sq ft office tower downtown would only reduce the size of the campus by about 20%. It would give Cerner a signature and high profile tower for the actual HQ of the company in a central location to all campuses.

I know this is a pipe dream, but it's worth dreaming about.

Last time I was out there, month ago, everyone was telling me the next building was under construction. Could be an early delay for a design or contract issue. Message I got was they couldn't build fast enough. With Cerner winning the VA contract I would imagine that they will be over capacity, even with a fully built Banister campus. Maybe the next building will be downtown.

With downtown still having a good amount of Class A vacancy (1.4M sqft) and Cerner growing faster than new campus build, maybe Cerner will scoop some downtown space up temporarily and then if it works out nicely, build downtown instead! Wishful thinking. They could just as easily temporarily lease Sprint campus space too.

Co-founder and CEO Neal Patterson passed away today.

https://globenewswire.com/news-release/ ... erson.html

Only 67.

http://www.kansascity.com/news/business ... 86359.html

Article says Cerner now at 12,800 local employees. Seems like just a couple years ago it was 8K.

I don't know that Patterson was the source of erhaps Patterson's replacement will be more interested in placing offices downtown.

chrizow wrote:

SWFan wrote:

earthling wrote:In Cerner's case they are going after college grads who would more likely want to live downtown anyway. And downtown is getting schools and developing towards family living anyway, so many may not 'grow out of city living', as it this the case with professional leaning families in much larger cities.

I see people stating this, but our company's experience has been different. Most of the college grads we are picking up seem to like the JoCo suburbs. I will say, most of our grads are coming from midwestern colleges and Cerner might be picking up east/west coaster who are used to more urban-centric cities which might make an impact on the preference for suburb vs downtown living.

I think urbanists on this site see all the very exciting growth in the urban core, coupled with near-daily internet articles talking about how millennials want to live in cities, and forget that the vast majority of young adults in KC are still settling in the suburbs. I think without question a rapidly growing slice of that population is choosing to live in the city, but i'm guessing for every recent college grad (or other 20-something) moving downtown there are still 2-3 moving to JoCo, northland, East Jax, wherever. Not to mention the fact that a huge portion of the urbanites living downtown in their 20s will, eventually, move to the burbs (even if it's PV or Briarcliff).

just anecdotally, literally no one in my extended family under 40 (or over 40 for that matter) lives anywhere near the city. also, no one in my workplace of approximately 40 attorneys, and at least that many staff employees, lives in KCMO other than myself and a few others in BKS/Waldo. More specifically, out of probably 20 attorneys we have under 40, only maybe 4-5 live in BKS/Waldo and the rest live in JoCo.

Here is an article concerning the suburban draw of the millennials. The second one I have seen recently on this topic.
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/olde ... 04971.html
"While millennials might have once shuddered at the thought of trekking out to the ‘burbs, millennials (who make up 42% of all homebuyers — more than any other generation), are trading in the hustle and bustle of cities for less chaotic communities. And many of these “surban” environments provide millennials with the kinds of amenities they got in the city, including boutique fitness options, high-quality grocery stores and popular restaurants."

Manged to go by it twice in a week.

The buildings actually look smaller than a similar sizes building downtown on that giant lot. Probably not what they were going for

flyingember wrote:Manged to go by it twice in a week.

The buildings actually look smaller than a similar sizes building downtown on that giant lot. Probably not what they were going for

I drive by it every workday. Personally, if they can actually fill in with other office buildings in the area I wouldn't mind it. Right now it is surrounded by hills of dirt and rubble. It would be nice to get a Corporate Woods type set up in that area. Just don't know if they can actually do it.

Marion Ridge 2.0

aknowledgeableperson wrote:

chrizow wrote:

SWFan wrote:
I see people stating this, but our company's experience has been different. Most of the college grads we are picking up seem to like the JoCo suburbs. I will say, most of our grads are coming from midwestern colleges and Cerner might be picking up east/west coaster who are used to more urban-centric cities which might make an impact on the preference for suburb vs downtown living.

I think urbanists on this site see all the very exciting growth in the urban core, coupled with near-daily internet articles talking about how millennials want to live in cities, and forget that the vast majority of young adults in KC are still settling in the suburbs. I think without question a rapidly growing slice of that population is choosing to live in the city, but i'm guessing for every recent college grad (or other 20-something) moving downtown there are still 2-3 moving to JoCo, northland, East Jax, wherever. Not to mention the fact that a huge portion of the urbanites living downtown in their 20s will, eventually, move to the burbs (even if it's PV or Briarcliff).

just anecdotally, literally no one in my extended family under 40 (or over 40 for that matter) lives anywhere near the city. also, no one in my workplace of approximately 40 attorneys, and at least that many staff employees, lives in KCMO other than myself and a few others in BKS/Waldo. More specifically, out of probably 20 attorneys we have under 40, only maybe 4-5 live in BKS/Waldo and the rest live in JoCo.

Here is an article concerning the suburban draw of the millennials. The second one I have seen recently on this topic.
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/olde ... 04971.html
"While millennials might have once shuddered at the thought of trekking out to the ‘burbs, millennials (who make up 42% of all homebuyers — more than any other generation), are trading in the hustle and bustle of cities for less chaotic communities. And many of these “surban” environments provide millennials with the kinds of amenities they got in the city, including boutique fitness options, high-quality grocery stores and popular restaurants."

I work for a big corporation and I just spent the last 8 years in Houston. When we were hiring big time during the oil boom, literally hundreds of professionals per year fresh out of school, nearly all of what we would call the millennials we hired opted for urban housing locations. There are only a few exceptions and those were driven more by cost as the burbs are indeed cheaper. But the overwhelming number opted for the city.

Houston is a special case compared to KC.

A drive that can take 20 minutes here is an hour in Houston. And here you can go on the freeway at 65mph at 4pm, whereas in Houston I've seen 25mph gridlock at 2:30 on a weekday

This quickly makes the commute a key consideration

flyingember wrote:Houston is a special case compared to KC.

A drive that can take 20 minutes here is an hour in Houston. And here you can go on the freeway at 65mph at 4pm, whereas in Houston I've seen 25mph gridlock at 2:30 on a weekday

This quickly makes the commute a key consideration

That's true and I've posted that observation before. Nonetheless, you could sort the living locations of the people in my office by age. Early Career: Urban. Late Career: Suburban. When I moved there in 2009, I bought the myth of Katy TX schools (I had kids in high school at the time) and did that 20 mile commute. 20 minutes at 5 AM, over 1 hour at 7:00 AM. Going home from work was always a cluster. It's funny that the same segregation repeats itself in Anchorage with early to mid career people downtown and midtown and later career further out.

KC doesn't have that kind of traffic so the commute catalyst isn't there but there's a hell of a lot of apartments under construction in downtown KC and there doesn't seem to be much dampening in the demand as of yet. The amount of projects is kind of mind boggling for a city the size of KC without a huge downtown work force.