nomadcowatbk wrote:Does the dowtown vs suburbs issue matter to employees when they move the suburbs for a bigger house when they have kids and will by driving to work wherever it is (at least to the mass transit commuter lot)?
Absolutely. I prefer parking in a garage downtown to a surface lot. A huge lot requires walking a long distance in bad weather, dealing with scraping my car and such.
I consider ease of access to a job in my overall decision. A place that would make me walk a long distance would have a disadvantage in that area.
Adding 5 minutes of walking each way every day is equal to an entire extra workweek over the year.
Hey, if the suburban house is 5 to 10 minutes away from the suburban job that would make a difference.
People with families tend to think different than single people with no family or DINKS. People will make certain sacrifices for their kids.
aknowledgeableperson wrote:Hey, if the suburban house is 5 to 10 minutes away from the suburban job that would make a difference.
People with families tend to think different than single people with no family or DINKS. People will make certain sacrifices for their kids.
They do - but not in the same ways they used to. Lots of urban families any more. A lot of that is because the suburbs aren't really much of a haven from the bad things in life any more and commuting to jobs in the burbs is just as bad as going downtown.
aknowledgeableperson wrote:Hey, if the suburban house is 5 to 10 minutes away from the suburban job that would make a difference.
People with families tend to think different than single people with no family or DINKS. People will make certain sacrifices for their kids.
They do - but not in the same ways they used to. Lots of urban families any more. A lot of that is because the suburbs aren't really much of a haven from the bad things in life any more and commuting to jobs in the burbs is just as bad as going downtown.
it's the schools stupid , how many of the those highly educated Cerner employees would send their kids to Central (not Center) High? although they probably went be sending them to Ruskin high either, many the campuses of Apple and Google in Silicon Valley aren't much different the the Sprint Campus but that doesn't hurt them getting young employees, the creative types seem to prefer urban areas but the been counters and coders doesn't seem to mind suburban campuses, I guess Cerner doesn't need a lot of creative types but doesn't really matter with those 80-100 work weeks where they have no time to go out?
aknowledgeableperson wrote:Hey, if the suburban house is 5 to 10 minutes away from the suburban job that would make a difference.
People with families tend to think different than single people with no family or DINKS. People will make certain sacrifices for their kids.
They do - but not in the same ways they used to. Lots of urban families any more. A lot of that is because the suburbs aren't really much of a haven from the bad things in life any more and commuting to jobs in the burbs is just as bad as going downtown.
it's the schools stupid , how many of the those highly educated Cerner employees would send their kids to Central (not Center) High? although they probably went be sending them to Ruskin high either, many the campuses of Apple and Google in Silicon Valley aren't much different the the Sprint Campus but that doesn't hurt them getting young employees, the creative types seem to prefer urban areas but the been counters and coders doesn't seem to mind suburban campuses, I guess Cerner doesn't need a lot of creative types but doesn't really matter with those 80-100 work weeks where they have no time to go out?
Where I live, there's a lot of pressure to live inboard due to insane commute times. Most of the younger people I work with that have young families have long ago given up on the burbs and have moved to the inner suburbs and city - and just fork out what it takes for private schools. I mean - that's essentially the same thing people in Brookside do. Having said that, there's absolutely nothing compelling about east KC. I don't think anyone is going to move to that area and put their kids in Ruskin or Hickman because they have a job with Cerner (or Belton or Raymore for that matter). That office will exist like every other company out in that area - zero interaction with or effect on the local area other than a bit of increased traffic. The project removes an eyesore but does little else for the area.
They do - but not in the same ways they used to. Lots of urban families any more. A lot of that is because the suburbs aren't really much of a haven from the bad things in life any more and commuting to jobs in the burbs is just as bad as going downtown.[/quote]
it's the schools stupid , how many of the those highly educated Cerner employees would send their kids to Central (not Center) High? although they probably went be sending them to Ruskin high either, many the campuses of Apple and Google in Silicon Valley aren't much different the the Sprint Campus but that doesn't hurt them getting young employees, the creative types seem to prefer urban areas but the been counters and coders doesn't seem to mind suburban campuses, I guess Cerner doesn't need a lot of creative types but doesn't really matter with those 80-100 work weeks where they have no time to go out?[/quote]
Where I live, there's a lot of pressure to live inboard due to insane commute times. Most of the younger people I work with that have young families have long ago given up on the burbs and have moved to the inner suburbs and city - and just fork out what it takes for private schools. I mean - that's essentially the same thing people in Brookside do. Having said that, there's absolutely nothing compelling about east KC. I don't think anyone is going to move to that area and put their kids in Ruskin or Hickman because they have a job with Cerner (or Belton or Raymore for that matter). That office will exist like every other company out in that area - zero interaction with or effect on the local area other than a bit of increased traffic. The project removes an eyesore but does little else for the area.[/quote]
but what would do anything more for the area besides the project?
Where I live, there's a lot of pressure to live inboard due to insane commute times. Most of the younger people I work with that have young families have long ago given up on the burbs and have moved to the inner suburbs and city - and just fork out what it takes for private schools. I mean - that's essentially the same thing people in Brookside do. Having said that, there's absolutely nothing compelling about east KC. I don't think anyone is going to move to that area and put their kids in Ruskin or Hickman because they have a job with Cerner (or Belton or Raymore for that matter). That office will exist like every other company out in that area - zero interaction with or effect on the local area other than a bit of increased traffic. The project removes an eyesore but does little else for the area.[/quote]
what if kids need SPED services? private schools aren't obligated to provide those
" I don't think anyone is going to move to that area and put their kids in Ruskin or Hickman because they have a job with Cerner (or Belton or Raymore for that matter). That office will exist like every other company out in that area - zero interaction with or effect on the local area other than a bit of increased traffic. The project removes an eyesore but does little else for the area."
Of course Hickman Mills High School is closed now so the school district has only one high school - Ruskin. Not sure about Belton schools but the Ray-Pec School District just got voter approval to address additional needs forecasted 8 to 10 years down the road. In Raymore new houses are selling about as fast as they are putting them up and older homes are selling fast also. Has one just down the street, FSBO, and was sold in one day. That's not typical but others in the neighborhood usually sell within 30 days after listing. Of course the employees can do a reverse commute and go against traffic by living in Kansas.
If one is not worried about education then the housing stock is at an unbeatable price. Values dropped so far so fast 8 years ago there is still a way to go to get back to the before crash price levels even after the stabilization of prices and a start of a rebound.
Cerner employees' south KC priorities: safety, housing, gas and groceries
When indicating the goods and services the employees would use if they were available in close proximity to their work, 92 percent said gasoline, 90 percent said groceries, and 89 percent said restaurants. Following that, in the mid-60 percent range, were convenience stores, pharmacy items and a doctor or dentist.
Among all survey respondents, 41 percents said they are very likely to move to the area, and an additional 29 percent said they are somewhat likely to move.
When asked what kind of neighborhood the employees would look for in their next move, 31 percent said they preferred a walkable, mixed-use suburban neighborhood; 13 percent wanted an established urban neighborhood; and 37 percent wanted a traditional suburban neighborhood. And in that next move, 74 percent want to live in a single-family home, and 17 percent said apartment.
Respondents considering moving were split down the middle on whether they wanted maintenance included with their home.
Forty-five percent said they would send children to school in the community they live in, which is the Hickman Mills School District for the Trails Campus. However, 51 percent of respondents to the question had no children.
Respondents also preferred a shorter commute. About 60 percent said they would use public transportation more often if the service was more convenient, and 59 percent said they would bike more if additional and convenient trails or bike lanes were provided.
FangKC wrote:Cerner employees' south KC priorities: safety, housing, gas and groceries
When indicating the goods and services the employees would use if they were available in close proximity to their work, 92 percent said gasoline, 90 percent said groceries, and 89 percent said restaurants. Following that, in the mid-60 percent range, were convenience stores, pharmacy items and a doctor or dentist.
Among all survey respondents, 41 percents said they are very likely to move to the area, and an additional 29 percent said they are somewhat likely to move.
When asked what kind of neighborhood the employees would look for in their next move, 31 percent said they preferred a walkable, mixed-use suburban neighborhood; 13 percent wanted an established urban neighborhood; and 37 percent wanted a traditional suburban neighborhood. And in that next move, 74 percent want to live in a single-family home, and 17 percent said apartment.
Respondents considering moving were split down the middle on whether they wanted maintenance included with their home.
Forty-five percent said they would send children to school in the community they live in, which is the Hickman Mills School District for the Trails Campus. However, 51 percent of respondents to the question had no children.
Respondents also preferred a shorter commute. About 60 percent said they would use public transportation more often if the service was more convenient, and 59 percent said they would bike more if additional and convenient trails or bike lanes were provided.
I'd like to see the actual questions the employees were asked. The conclusions seem like a stretch. I really doubt if any Cerner employee moves anywhere near the actual Cerner offices. By move to the "area", I suspect they meant Lees Summit or I-435 and state line in Joco. And what is a walkable mixed use suburban neighborhood? Wesport? Plaza? It certainly isn't any of KC's true burbs. Do they mean a suburb with walking paths? The questions about public transportation were irrelevant since that is never going to happen (at least in terms of light rail or streetcar) at 87th and I435.
Drove by the area the other day. A large apartment complex close to Blue Ridge and 87th appears to have new owners and the place is getting a facelift.
aknowledgeableperson wrote:Drove by the area the other day. A large apartment complex close to Blue Ridge and 87th appears to have new owners and the place is getting a facelift.
The aspiration of every college graduate - a quickly spruced up past its prime apartment complex at Blue Ridge and 87th. I would not expect much more than this kind of thing to happen in SE KC in response to Cerner.
I just drove by the cerner project and I don't care if I'm beating a dead horse. This is the biggest mistake that i can imagine. This will go down in history as a complete waste of tax dollars and will do little to nothing for the area. Everyone falsely claiming that there is no room in the downtown area is part of the problem.
Last edited by mister816 on Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
mister816 wrote:I just drove by the cerner project and I don't care if I'm beating a dead horse. This is the biggest mistake that i can imagine. This will go down in history as a complete waste of tax dollars and will forward little to nothing for the area. Everyone falsely claiming that there is no room in the downtown area is part of the problem.
This is not a project that could get built downtown without a commuter rail system running.
10,000+ parking spots is multiple 20-story parking towers. Just the office space would be the entire north loop filled with the tallest structures in the entire state.
There's not room for both aspects downtown right now without doing tearouts.
...and yet we're determined to build self-driving cars instead of, you know, deciding that cars are stupid and we need to find a better way to move people that doesn't involve storing tens of thousands of tons of steel in concrete or wooden boxes for the vast majority of the day.
You can see why I keep coming back to jobs as one of the key selling points for transit. Jobs sells train votes way more than going to the airport, Royals game or Union Station ever will. And new development is key but someone in Liberty or Lee's Summit doesn't care about downtown retail for residents.
mean wrote:So you're saying the jobs aren't going to come until there is transit, and transit isn't going to come until there are jobs.
Cerner is being smart for them and building offices near to a lot of populations that lets people avoid the notable KC traffic areas and in cities that offer deals to build there.
It doesn't mean that transit can't be successful or that other projects will do the same, just that this development is driven by current commuting patterns and not the future.
I won't be working at Cerner because of where they put jobs for the same reason. I dislike driving and downtown for me is much closer than any other place with jobs in my field.
Don't look in terms of citywide, look in terms of where people with specific demographics live. They're clearly not trying to hire someone that doesn't own a car. Ignoring the many exceptions to the rule they're aiming for a largely white middle class college educated workforce that has traditionally moved to suburbs because of "the schools."
Nowhere did I say downtown can't support a big employer. I said they can't build a major tower complex like Cerner is without teardowns. There isn't enough contiguous space right now.
But it is true, downtown cannot support a new big employer right now.
A multi-thousand person employer can come but it's not going to be car centric and we don't have the transit network in place to bring the Cerner level of commuters into downtown at this time and there isn't the space to add 13k worth of offices and 13k worth of parking to downtown in new developments. 10k people at 30 per bus is 300+ busses. Does the KCATA even own that many?
The system right now is built to add a few hundred jobs at a time and that's what we're seeing coming. There's a lot of quality jobs coming downtown but major employers are not choosing the neighborhood because to add 10k cars daily on Main or a Grand would be an immediate doubling of numbers.
We can't even get our streetlights to not change for no cross traffic and stop cars at a red light as a result. We're doing a great job at small scale live-work in downtown changes and are failing at the large scale. And a huge employer works on a large scale.
It's much easier to locate in Tiffany Springs and take advantage of the almost nonexistent counter flow traffic and just not care about car vs not
, how many of the those highly educated Cerner employees would send their kids to Central (not Center) High? although they probably went be sending them to Ruskin high either, many the campuses of Apple and Google in Silicon Valley aren't much different the the Sprint Campus but that doesn't hurt them getting young employees, the creative types seem to prefer urban areas but the been counters and coders doesn't seem to mind suburban campuses, I guess Cerner doesn't need a lot of creative types but doesn't really matter with those 80-100 work weeks where they have no time to go out?
