Bannister Mall/Cerner

Jackson/Cass Suburbs, including South KC
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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Postby aknowledgeableperson » Wed Jun 22, 2016 1:27 am

mean wrote:...and yet we're determined to build self-driving cars instead of, you know, deciding that cars are stupid and we need to find a better way to move people that doesn't involve storing tens of thousands of tons of steel in concrete or wooden boxes for the vast majority of the day.

We are dealing with the here and now, not some distant point in the future. The change you desire cannot happen at a snap of the fingers.

Much like the soccer stadium Cerner's owners could have put this office complex in KCK, Lees' Summit or just any other city in the metro that had the ground available for the complex. Did KCMO overpay for the jobs? Only time will tell. Given the other projects for the area along 87th St and what could probably happen south of Bannister the area could become a hotbed for jobs. Add in the long term prospects for the old Bannister complex by Troost and there would be a revival for the area.

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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Postby warwickland » Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:49 am

I sort of stumbled upon this project while looking into other large corporate expansions over the past few years (in light of the massive centene expansion in downtown clayton).

why would a city like kc give incentives to a company to build in a fully suburban area?

i havent been to the east xroads in quite a while...but i imagine that the city could have tried to lure cerner into a relatively agreeable, tall urban campus (with through streets)? centene is about to shoehorn 1.5 million square feet of office space into clayton, which isn't nearly as accessible as downtown kc (with the exception of metrolink).

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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Postby flyingember » Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:58 pm

warwickland wrote:I sort of stumbled upon this project while looking into other large corporate expansions over the past few years (in light of the massive centene expansion in downtown clayton).

why would a city like kc give incentives to a company to build in a fully suburban area?

i havent been to the east xroads in quite a while...but i imagine that the city could have tried to lure cerner into a relatively agreeable, tall urban campus (with through streets)? centene is about to shoehorn 1.5 million square feet of office space into clayton, which isn't nearly as accessible as downtown kc (with the exception of metrolink).

From the city's view this area has been abandoned for newer areas to the east and west that built with assistance and took the customers. We used to live in Liberty to the east and this was where we shopped. The Shaol Creek development replaced the need. Zona Rosa and Tiffany Springs work did the same for the west.

Nearly every shopping center within a mile of this spot is in bad shape to some degree so they're following up the assistance that hurt the developments in this area with assistance to rebuild them.

Amazingly they approved Costco as new development with all this in the area.

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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Postby warwickland » Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:26 pm

the geography of kc is kind of bizarre, since it has that 360 degree aspect, but also a distinct favored quarter adjacent to a "blown out" quarter (SE side with leapfrog beyond) in a different state.

i suppose cerner could have greenfielded it at 159th and I-35.

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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Postby Highlander » Sun Aug 07, 2016 10:24 pm

warwickland wrote:the geography of kc is kind of bizarre, since it has that 360 degree aspect, but also a distinct favored quarter adjacent to a "blown out" quarter (SE side with leapfrog beyond) in a different state.

i suppose cerner could have greenfielded it at 159th and I-35.


Isn't the Cerner project essentially a greenfield development? It's an abandoned mall with no extant structures. The only difference is that Cerner is bounded to the east by a neighborhood well past its prime. To the west is an urban interstate (435), a smaller urban interstate (49-71), a massive quarry operation and undevelopable steep hollows associated with the Blue River. I drove by while in KC last week. Still feel its a huge wasted opportunity.

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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Postby flyingember » Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:16 am

I was thinking, and at least the Cerner project uses excess freeway capacity. It's not going to come with a widening of I-35 into downtown to help with perceived traffic loads

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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Postby aknowledgeableperson » Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:46 am

"The only difference is that Cerner is bounded to the east by a neighborhood well past its prime."
The midtown area of KC could have been described the same way not so long ago.

"a massive quarry operation"
That operation is leading to future development above it. Some of the area close to 87th has already been developed.

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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Postby kboish » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:05 am

I drove past this development last weekend...wow, what a god awful waste. I can't believe a billion dollars worth of subsidies will be sunk into this place. It also looked like they had a controlled access checkpoint set up at 87th and Hillcrest. Is all of that publicly funded infrastructure now privately restricted?

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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Postby flyingember » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:07 am

kboish wrote:I drove past this development last weekend...wow, what a god awful waste. I can't believe a billion dollars worth of subsidies will be sunk into this place. It also looked like they had a controlled access checkpoint set up at 87th and Hillcrest. Is all of that publicly funded infrastructure now privately restricted?


It's a private business complex, yes.

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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Postby nomadcowatbk » Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:20 am


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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Postby im2kull » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:42 pm

kboish wrote:I drove past this development last weekend...wow, what a god awful waste. I can't believe a billion dollars worth of subsidies will be sunk into this place. It also looked like they had a controlled access checkpoint set up at 87th and Hillcrest. Is all of that publicly funded infrastructure now privately restricted?


I've been preaching this to no avail since the beginning. The worlds tallest building cost roughly what the tax subsidiary alone on this development cost. And what are we getting for that investment? A private, gated, zero interaction, super sized parking lot with a couple of short square office buildings on them. There's no way in hell that complex cost THAT much.

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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Postby flyingember » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:30 am

4.7 million square feet for $4.5 billion. so $957 per square foot

Two Light is $105 million, 520000 square feet, for $201 per square foot.

One ku med tower is/was $280 million at 377,000 sq ft, for $742 per square foot

So the Cerner cost isn't horribly unrealistic. It would be high for residential but doesn't seem high for customized office space

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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Postby aknowledgeableperson » Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:31 pm

Did you figure infrastructure into the costs?

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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Postby flyingember » Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:33 pm

aknowledgeableperson wrote:Did you figure infrastructure into the costs?

Just announced project cost.

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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Postby GRID » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:17 pm

This is still the biggest missed opportunity in the history of Kansas City. Period. Had this gone downtown, it would have put KC into a totally different league of cities. This one project would have done that.

Instead, the 4.5 billion dollar project (one of the biggest corporate welfare projects in the history of the United States), will do almost nothing to help the area it's going into because of it's 1980's design.

Just wow.

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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Postby DaveKCMO » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:37 pm

GRID wrote:This is still the biggest missed opportunity in the history of Kansas City. Period. Had this gone downtown, it would have put KC into a totally different league of cities. This one project would have done that.

Instead, the 4.5 billion dollar project (one of the biggest corporate welfare projects in the history of the United States), will do almost nothing to help the area it's going into because of it's 1980's design.

Just wow.


just 10% of the jobs would have had a significant impact downtown. enough to require a new office tower.

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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Postby GRID » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:44 pm

DaveKCMO wrote:
GRID wrote:This is still the biggest missed opportunity in the history of Kansas City. Period. Had this gone downtown, it would have put KC into a totally different league of cities. This one project would have done that.

Instead, the 4.5 billion dollar project (one of the biggest corporate welfare projects in the history of the United States), will do almost nothing to help the area it's going into because of it's 1980's design.

Just wow.


just 10% of the jobs would have had a significant impact downtown. enough to require a new office tower.


The city and the state should have required Cerner to do something like that in order for them to receive the absurd incentives they got for the Bannister Mall project.

I have always hoped that Cerner would put up one signature tower downtown. Just one. They are already spread all over the the metro. Why not have one tower in the middle of the city where they would have the main HQ offices? A single 50 story 1 million sq ft tower. That's all I have ever asked for.

I still wonder if maybe they still will. Maybe they will see all the constant negative feedback they are getting from the trails campus and do something, ANYTHING downtown. You would think by now they would have broken ground on the next phase of the Bannister project to keep that on schedule and I keep thinking maybe they will have a change of heart and take just part of that ridiculous office park and build a signature tower in Downtown KC. I know, wishful thinking. KC is lucky that campus is not halfway to Lawrence or Emporia as it is. But I keep hoping.

A LOT has changed in Downtown KC in just the past five years. They have to be wondering why they are missing out on that and have to be getting some feedback from the new employees they are bringing to the metro that are commuting from the city to these suburban office parks.

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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Postby mistervinix » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:13 pm

This is still years from being fully built out. A lot could change in their industry, in transportation, etc. But if no one else invests in that area it will be a very odd island.

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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Postby aknowledgeableperson » Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:04 am

GRID wrote:This is still the biggest missed opportunity in the history of Kansas City. Period. Had this gone downtown, it would have put KC into a totally different league of cities. This one project would have done that.

Instead, the 4.5 billion dollar project (one of the biggest corporate welfare projects in the history of the United States), will do almost nothing to help the area it's going into because of it's 1980's design.

Just wow.


Of course that's assuming that Cerner would even go downtown in the first place. Cerner could have gone to many different places in the metro and not be in KC. This was all about jobs, jobs that would be in Kansas City instead of Lees' Summit, Independence, Belton, Kansas City KS, or Olathe. And as a side benefit of getting those jobs was the City was able to redevelop an area that needed redevelopment, an area that needed a shot-in-the-arm to help revitalize it. How much of an effect this project will have on the surrounding area? Hard to say at this time. May be big. May be small. But I think it will have a bigger positive effect than many on this board would realize.

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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Postby NorthOak » Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:00 pm

All of this incentive give-away crap is because of the state of Kansas being a stealing whore that is willing to lube up and bend over to steal anything - even the smallest company across state line. Sure, every city and state has incentives and tries to lure companies. But those companies that intend to stay in KC because of our QOL always have the winning hand because of the state line. I'm sure KC tried to leverage Cerner for something but Cerner always had the "Ace-in-the-hole" in their back pocket (state line). The corporations in this metro are the most disgusting, worthless, slimeball hypocrites that do nothing for this city's image or future but always make sure they purvey commercially how much they "love Kansas City" and brag about "how great it is here."

Minneapolis has a great downtown skyline because of the hometown loyalty and pride in it's major corps; Target, Wells Fargo, Best Buy, General Mills, Pillsbury, US Bancorp, etc. Imagine if just 3 local companies had an ounce of pride and loyalty to KC what they could have done downtown (Sprint, Garmin and Cerner).
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