Bannister Mall/Cerner

Jackson/Cass Suburbs, including South KC
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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Post by flyingember » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:27 pm

The idea that this would get people to move to the area will never happen if the schools don't gain a better reputation.

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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Post by Highlander » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:50 pm

flyingember wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:27 pm
The idea that this would get people to move to the area will never happen if the schools don't gain a better reputation.
Naive of KC politicians to think this was going to have any impact at all on SE KC. It's too accessible from established suburban housing in Lees Summit and south Johnson County with decent schools. And even for employees without children, I sincerely doubt if people are going to be moving to Ruskin/Hickman Mills area for absolutely no uplift in lifestyle other than saving 5 minutes on a commute.

It's remarkable how KC politicians have made the same mistakes over and over again since the 1960's trying repeatedly and failing to create a critical mass making the same mistakes each time. Only the P&L District has really succeeded and that was due to perfect timing (the renewed interest in urban living starting to accelerate at the same time) and a very concentrated effort with several large investments (PAC, Sprint Arena, P&L District, Streetcar).

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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Post by FangKC » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:28 pm

There are middle class and luxury houses in KCMO that are in the Center, Lee's Summit, and Raytown school districts. Some are a short drive east of the Cerner campus down Bannister Road. There is also plenty of land to develop for new housing around those neighborhoods. There is also plenty of KCMO land south of Longview Lake going down Raytown Road, and east of Grandview, that is in the Lee's Summit School District. There is also land west of Grandview around Holmes and Blue River Road in the Center and Grandview school districts.

On the maps below, the red border shows the boundaries of KCMO.

Image

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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Post by nomadcowatbk » Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:25 am

FangKC wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:28 pm
There are middle class and luxury houses in KCMO that are in the Center, Lee's Summit, and Raytown school districts. S

Image
most of the houses in Raytown and Center SDs are older, and while they might have full accreditation they don't have the reputation of Blue Valley or Lees Summit SDs, but the highest performing districts are usually the most affluent

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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Post by missingkc » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:48 am

It's remarkable how KC politicians have made the same mistakes over and over again since the 1960's trying repeatedly and failing to create a critical mass making the same mistakes each time. Only the P&L District has really succeeded and that was due to perfect timing (the renewed interest in urban living starting to accelerate at the same time) and a very concentrated effort with several large investments (PAC, Sprint Arena, P&L District, Streetcar).
I fear they may be making the same mistake pouring tons of money into Prospect. I think one reason Troost is doing so well is because it is an incremental, natural growth to the east from an area of established vitality. Private money sees the opportunity and is jumping in. I'm afraid the leap to Prospect will be a move that isn't readily taken up by private developers and that without that, the money poured into the area stands a high risk of creating another 18th and Vine. (Even 18th and Vine was better positioned to draw investment than Prospect due to its proximity to downtown, historic significance and museums. Prospect will have absolutely no draw for people who don't live there.)

So I agree, significant development around Cerner is a long shot.

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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Post by shinatoo » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:42 am

FangKC wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:28 pm
There are middle class and luxury houses in KCMO that are in the Center, Lee's Summit, and Raytown school districts. Some are a short drive east of the Cerner campus down Bannister Road. There is also plenty of land to develop for new housing around those neighborhoods. There is also plenty of KCMO land south of Longview Lake going down Raytown Road, and east of Grandview, that is in the Lee's Summit School District. There is also land west of Grandview around Holmes and Blue River Road in the Center and Grandview school districts.

On the maps below, the red border shows the boundaries of KCMO.

Image
Just being pedantic here, but the area of KCMO south of Longview Lake is 90% in the Grandview school district. Lees Summit Schools end at Horridge.

These Cerner jobs pay 80 grand and up. Nobody making that is going to move there kids into the Raytown or Hickman School districts so they can be 15 minutes closer to work. At least not until those districts get some funding. Maybe Grandview or Center, but unlikely.
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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Post by FangKC » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:21 pm

nomadcowatbk wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:25 am
most of the houses in Raytown and Center SDs are older, and while they might have full accreditation they don't have the reputation of Blue Valley or Lees Summit SDs, but the highest performing districts are usually the most affluent
shinatoo wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:42 am

Just being pedantic here, but the area of KCMO south of Longview Lake is 90% in the Grandview school district. Lees Summit Schools end at Horridge.

These Cerner jobs pay 80 grand and up. Nobody making that is going to move there kids into the Raytown or Hickman School districts so they can be 15 minutes closer to work. At least not until those districts get some funding. Maybe Grandview or Center, but unlikely.
I would imagine there are a fair number of Cerner employees who are young, and don't yet have children. There are also those who are now empty-nesters. They are less concerned with school districts, and living close to work would appeal to these employees. The younger ones might rent, or buy a house to live in for maybe 10 years, and then when they have kids entering school, consider moving.

Eighteen percent of households in the Metro are non-family. However, in KCMO, 46 percent are non-family. It's hard to parse out the percentage of married couples who have no children living at home. Family households include single parents with children, married couples with children, married empty-nesters, married who haven't had children yet, and married who don't want children. I recall seeing statistics in the past though that KCMO has around 26 percent married with children at home. My point is that there is a large pool of residents who might not be so concerned about the school districts, and will populate the area immediately around Cerner's campus. Those with children might opt to live further east down Bannister Road in the Lee's Summit School District. I imagine developers are going to realize their various markets and build accordingly.

There is a significant portion of undeveloped KCMO in the Lee's Summit School District ( purple boundaries) that lays west of Lee's Summit Road extending north to around what would be 59th Street (through Little Blue Trace County Park). It stretches west to Noland Road, then juts further west to almost Westridge / Harrison, and extends south to E. I02nd Street. It has a land area a bit larger than Prairie Village.

Image

There are new houses already being built near Bannister and Noland Road.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9493165 ... !1e3?hl=en

There is another strip of KCMO in Lee's Summit School District that lays east of Horridge from E. 139th Street south to the Jackson/Cass county line (aka E. 155th St.) You could build about two blocks in east of Horridge along this strip and still be in KCMO. The distance between 139th and 155th streets is misleading. Numerically it appears to be 16 blocks, but I overlaid existing blocks in Lee's Summit and it could be about 35 blocks of houses if the new developments were similarly-spaced, and you used numerical streets like XXXth St., XXXth Terrace, and threw in three XXX Courts, or Ways.

The purple boundaries show the Lee's Summit School District territory that exists in KCMO.

Image

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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Post by shinatoo » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:18 pm

They are already turning dirt along Horridge. The section along Noland is difficult terran, but will get developed someday. Still not sure how any of this helps Hickman.
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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Post by GRID » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:21 am

That land east of Raytown has been mostly rural since KCMO annexed it. Other than a few dozen homes near Unity Village and Truman Medical Center ,very little has been built and Cerner isn't gong to change that. The few neighborhoods east of Raytown are mostly occupied by KCMO employees, cops and firefighters that need to live in the city limits but don't want to live in the northland. I'm not sure you can justify 2 billion in incentives for a dozen new homes at 350 and Bannister Road for the handful of Cerner employees that might live in that area. If Cener were downtown, you would have thousands of Cerner employees living there. Far more than now.

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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Post by FangKC » Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:31 am

I think that area east of Raytown doesn't have enough infrastructure. Noland Road, E.75th, E. 87th, Westridge/Harrison, Norfleet, Rickey Rd., Phelps Rd., Rhinehart Rd., Military Rd., Brickyard Rd., and Little Blue Road all need to be widened. Several of the main numbered artery streets need to be connected.

I doubt a lot of that area even has the big sewer mains and storm drains ready for neighborhoods to be built. Developers will put in the sewers and storm drains for their subdivisions, but they need to connect to the main ones that carry wastewater away. Same with big water mains.

There is no reason it can't develop. There is development all around it.

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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Post by nomadcowatbk » Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:54 am

FangKC wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:21 pm
nomadcowatbk wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:25 am
most of the houses in Raytown and Center SDs are older, and while they might have full accreditation they don't have the reputation of Blue Valley or Lees Summit SDs, but the highest performing districts are usually the most affluent
shinatoo wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:42 am

Just being pedantic here, but the area of KCMO south of Longview Lake is 90% in the Grandview school district. Lees Summit Schools end at Horridge.

These Cerner jobs pay 80 grand and up. Nobody making that is going to move there kids into the Raytown or Hickman School districts so they can be 15 minutes closer to work. At least not until those districts get some funding. Maybe Grandview or Center, but unlikely.
I would imagine there are a fair number of Cerner employees who are young, and don't yet have children. There are also those who are now empty-nesters. They are less concerned with school districts, and living close to work would appeal to these employees. The younger ones might rent, or buy a house to live in for maybe 10 years, and then when they have kids entering school, consider moving.

Eighteen percent of households in the Metro are non-family. However, in KCMO, 46 percent are non-family. It's hard to parse out the percentage of married couples who have no children living at home. Family households include single parents with children, married couples with children, married empty-nesters, married who haven't had children yet, and married who don't want children. I recall seeing statistics in the past though that KCMO has around 26 percent married with children at home. My point is that there is a large pool of residents who might not be so concerned about the school districts, and will populate the area immediately around Cerner's campus. Those with children might opt to live further east down Bannister Road in the Lee's Summit School District. I imagine developers are going to realize their various markets and build accordingly.

but how many Cerner employees without kids will be living in a tiny 3 bedroom no basement rental ranch house in Ruskin Heights next to a section 8 rental that changes occupants and owners frequently? they will never even pass through that area on the way to Lees Summit or Johnson County, if they bulldozed Ruskin Heights for new housing, that would add more to the affordable housing debate, employees might move to the Grandview, Center, or Raytown districts if they marketed themselves but they don't have the budgets for that, Raypec isn't too far either if they looking for more newer house for their $

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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Post by GRID » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:04 pm

FangKC wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:31 am
I think that area east of Raytown doesn't have enough infrastructure. Noland Road, E.75th, E. 87th, Westridge/Harrison, Norfleet, Rickey Rd., Phelps Rd., Rhinehart Rd., Military Rd., Brickyard Rd., and Little Blue Road all need to be widened. Several of the main numbered artery streets need to be connected.

I doubt a lot of that area even has the big sewer mains and storm drains ready for neighborhoods to be built. Developers will put in the sewers and storm drains for their subdivisions, but they need to connect to the main ones that carry wastewater away. Same with big water mains.

There is no reason it can't develop. There is development all around it.
A lot of it doesn't, but much of it does, and the parts that do develop extremely slowly. KCMO should de annex that section of the city (grandfather in the city employees that live there so they don't have to move) and let Raytown or Lee's Summit have it. It would probably develop then. It's just a drain on KCMO and it would be if it were developed with low density sprawl too.

If Cerner really wanted to help SKC< they would help build new housing developments (townhouses and apartments) on their free land or on any of the surrounding underdeveloped land southwest of Raytown.

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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Post by Highlander » Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:20 pm

FangKC wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:28 pm
There are middle class and luxury houses in KCMO that are in the Center, Lee's Summit, and Raytown school districts. Some are a short drive east of the Cerner campus down Bannister Road. There is also plenty of land to develop for new housing around those neighborhoods. There is also plenty of KCMO land south of Longview Lake going down Raytown Road, and east of Grandview, that is in the Lee's Summit School District. There is also land west of Grandview around Holmes and Blue River Road in the Center and Grandview school districts.

On the maps below, the red border shows the boundaries of KCMO.
There have been very few homes built in those areas since I graduated from high school in the 70's. Nearly everything built recently and even relatively close has been built east of Longview Lake. That has been a pretty successful development but it's essentially Lees Summit.

It's not like there are not employers in that area. The successor to Marion Labs maintained a large employment base in that area for quite some time. Employees just chose to live elsewhere and commute. The rural-ish land in KCMO wasn't developed then and likely won't be developed as a result of Cerner alone. For most people, their home is still the biggest investment they will ever make and few will take chances on the immediate environs of Hickman Mills when they know they can reach their workplace with an extra 5-10 minutes. I just don't see much of any boon coming to east Kansas City as a result of Cerner. It's not that there are not homes that some people might find acceptable nearby or that there isn't vacant land on which to build, it's just that there are better choices for most people not all that far away and easily accessible with better school districts and more amenities.

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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Post by FangKC » Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:26 pm

nomadcowatbk wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:54 am
but how many Cerner employees without kids will be living in a tiny 3 bedroom no basement rental ranch house in Ruskin Heights next to a section 8 rental that changes occupants and owners frequently? they will never even pass through that area on the way to Lees Summit or Johnson County, if they bulldozed Ruskin Heights for new housing, that would add more to the affordable housing debate, employees might move to the Grandview, Center, or Raytown districts if they marketed themselves but they don't have the budgets for that, Raypec isn't too far either if they looking for more newer house for their $
I doubt any of the higher-paid staff will live in Ruskin Heights, but there are neighborhoods near the Cerner campus to the east and north that have decent homes. A "tiny" 3-bedroom with no basement ranch house has plenty of room for a single person, or newly-married. I own a 2-bedroom, 1-bath, ranch house with no basement, a garage, and it's enough for me. My neighbor has the same floorplan and three people live in their house.

Remember this is the generation where some want smaller houses. Some of the younger Cerner employees, while they may be making $80,000 a year, might have a lot of college debt. They might not be able to afford a big new house in Johnson County or Lee's Summit. There are young physicians and attorneys that can't -- simply because of their debt load.

Some might just want to buy something functional that is close to work. There is a variety of housing types and price ranges within a short commute in KCMO.

There are likely lower-paid employees that work at Cerner as desktop technicians, building maintenance, custodial, security, secretarial and administrative tasks, mail room, loading dock, or in the cafeteria, that might indeed live in Ruskin Heights/Hickman Mills houses. Btw, I see houses being renovated and sold in Ruskin Heights on real estate sites, so someone is buying the rundown houses and fixing them up. They remain affordable for lower income buyers.

This house in the link below is in KCMO, and the Lee's Summit School District.

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandh ... 96?view=qv

This house in the link below is in KCMO, and the Lee's Summit School District.

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/ ... 6_zm/1_fr/

This house in the link below is in KCMO, and the Lee's Summit School District.

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandho ... 29?view=qv

This house in the link below is in KCMO, and the Lee's Summit School District.

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandho ... 23?view=qv

This house in the link below is in KCMO, and the Lee's Summit School District.

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandho ... 24?view=qv

This house in the link below is in KCMO, and the Lee's Summit School District.

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandho ... 86?view=qv

This house in the link below is in KCMO, and the Lee's Summit School District.

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandho ... 48?view=qv

This house in the link below is in KCMO, and the Lee's Summit School District.

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/1 ... 7_zm/1_fr/

This house in the link below is in KCMO, and the Lee's Summit School District.

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/1 ... 6_zm/1_fr/

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/2 ... 4_zm/1_fr/

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandho ... 53?view=qv

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandho ... 63?view=qv

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandho ... 94?view=qv

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandho ... 51?view=qv

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandho ... 43?view=qv

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandho ... 16?view=qv

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandho ... 46?view=qv

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandho ... 31?view=qv

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandho ... 41?view=qv

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandho ... 82?view=qv

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandho ... 64?view=qv

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandho ... 62?view=qv

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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Post by GRID » Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:06 am

I'm not sure what your point is Fang. I know there are homes, some rather expensive in that area, but for the most part, it's an extremely rural area and most of the homes you linked are on very large lots. I would think you, if anybody, would understand the negatives of such a large and extremely low density area within the city limits. It's even worse that it's not even directly connected to the main part of KCMO being on the other side of Raytown.

KCMO should de-annex everything east of Raytown and everything south of Longview Lake and Martin City. Those area have less infrasturure than areas in the middle of Missouri. Let the surrounding suburbs develop that land. KCMO has its hand full with suburban development north of the river, so rural Jackson County will never get any sort of attention from the city of KCMO.

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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Post by mgsports » Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:27 pm

Also have other side on 95th Street,between 71/49 and 435 where's their's Homes. Also more Commercial is need in that area.

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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Post by empires228 » Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:22 am


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Re: Bannister Mall/Cerner

Post by GRID » Wed May 01, 2019 3:59 pm

Anybody got new pics of the progress of this?

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