18th and Vine

[rxlexi]

hey all, good to hear that 18th and Vine is finally starting to really take off; it has great potential, and The Peachtree is positively delicious as well being in the right location in the city, IMO. I agree with alot of what FangKC is saying, but my big question is where is an 18th and Vine Jazz Festival as has been mentioned before? A festival such as this is, to me, is the perfect way to not only increase interest in the area but also could become a wonderful tradition, replacing the long lost Blues and Jazz Fest. Suburbanites would come down for some good old Kansas City fun, I reckon, and probably be willing to come back after seeing that perhaps their perceptions of the area aren't quite accurate, and locals and music lovers all around would enjoy immensely. Besides, imagine the street closed off, filled with people and the smell of good food (maybe the Peachtree and upcoming Redvine could create outdoor stands), with some real quality Jazz echoing off the walls. Why hasn't this happened, and how close to reality is the idea?
Thanks, Alexi

[LyRiCaL GanGsTa]

I'm trying to recruit a friend from Leawood to live in the city, so I agreed to take her around to look at some options in the city.

Among them, we visited the Vine Street Lofts.

Uhhh... bad idea, that neighborhood is completely unsafe, I live and play in that area and it is a warzone at times. Send her to Westport , Downtown or Crosstown, not 18th & Vine.

[staubio]

I'd say that makes it a good idea. These things are part perception, part reality and result in self-fullfilling prophecy. If I could score a financially secure resident from the suburbs to spend time and money in this area, it'll help it on its way to recovery.

Besides, those lofts in particular are quite secure. Each unit has a security system and the premisis is locked. What exactly are we to be afraid of? What makes it a "warzone"?

[LyRiCaL GanGsTa]

First, I'm assuming the Leawood friend is a white lady. There is no way anyone should suggest a single white lady should move into that area. Do any of you know that 18th & Vine USED to be the Black Downtown of KCMO? Blacks were not allowed downtown except to work and even then had to enter through the back entrances. The city was completely segregated prior to the 60's. Blacks had thier own downtown - 18th & Vine. My point here is that she would be the ONLY white resident for days... even you can take a clue...

[LyRiCaL GanGsTa]

but my big question is where is an 18th and Vine Jazz Festival as has been mentioned before? A festival such as this is, to me, is the perfect way to not only increase interest in the area but also could become a wonderful tradition, replacing the long lost Blues and Jazz Fest.

Obviously you are new to the area, The 18th & Vine Jazz Festival WAS THE ORIGINAL jazz festival in the area and it was awesome! It existed BEFORE The (also defunct) KC Blues & Jazz Fest. They stopped the Vine festival about the same time that the Jazz district started to be rehabed... probably can look to the 18th & Vine Director that was bilking money to thank him for getting rid of the festival a few years ago - citing financial woes....lol. The fest money is probably sitting in his garage and/or attic.

[bahua]

I think it's a good idea, staubio.

[staubio]

Thanks bahua. I don't think I'll let baseless racism deter me from spending time in or recommending a district with tremendous history and momentum. I think the idea is that the new developments and progress are bringing economic and racial diversity back to the area, and that is part of the attraction. It is already happening. I see lots of not-scary white people and not-scary black people when I'm there.

I think the attitude towards these areas and the way we perceive them has a great deal to do with how they progress.

[tat2kc]

Being the only white resident is not a reason to avoid an area. Would you tell a black woman not to move to a particluar neighborhood in KC because she would be the only one?

[chrizow]

i dont think being the only white person in the area should be a deterrent either.

BUT, until the surrounding neighborhood becomes a but more stable, i'd say the crime is a pretty good reason to not live there, at least not yet. i dont really relish the idea of paying a grand per month for a shiny new loft in the middle of what Lyrical Gangsta calls a "warzone."

race shouldn't be a factor in where one lives, but hearing gunshots at night might well be. for that matter, some close family members of mine (all white, mind you) lived in the area around 25th and Brooklyn until a few years ago. they loved their neighbors, and were generally pretty happy living there, but once a drug house or two moves into the area, it can get pretty scary pretty quickly. my uncle to this day drives a pickup truck with about 14 bulletholes in the side of it from stray bullets. they aren't even from one bad night. they just accumulated over about 3 or 4 years. all it takes in one to come through your window....

anyway, i hope 18th and Vine takes off too. it has so much history and potential. unfortunately the area (and the East side in general) has long suffered from neglect, poverty, crime, and segregation.

[LyRiCaL GanGsTa]

think the idea is that the new developments and progress are bringing economic and racial diversity back to the area, and that is part of the attraction.

That area has never been racially diverse. Did you read what I wrote? That area was and has always been black only...exclusively... no whites, nunca blanco, get it? There are NO white people there now and I'm certain there never will be, who cares? Why do white people have to be there? The area doesn't 'need' white people, it has enough culture on it's own. This has nothing to do with 'baseless racism' you moron. I am entitled to my opinion without you throwing out slurs. I don't see your punk ass living down there but you want to refer a single white woman to that area? Do you look at crime statistics in KC? I suggest you contact the Police and ask them, you buffoon.

[LyRiCaL GanGsTa]

unfortunately the area (and the East side in general) has long suffered from neglect, poverty, crime, and segregation.

Where do you people come from? Not KC I'm sure. First of all, 18th & Vine is NOT the East Side. Technically, the East Side is an area bounded by I-435 on the east, Prospect on the west, Truman Road on the north and 31st street on the south. Most newcomers and johnny-come-latelies refer to EVERYTHING east of Main Street as the ' east side, this is incorrect. The East Side is a distinct neighborhood, like Hyde Park, The Plaza, Waldo, etc... You probably have been listening to the news and hear that crap because all of the news reporters in this town are clueless.

The east side has NEVER suffered from segregation, where do you get this idea? The East Side ( which does not include 18th & Vine like you wrongfully catagorized) was white. You can even see the 'Main Street' of the east side if you go to 24th Street, between Van Brunt and Jackson. The East side had it's own Main drag and the layout and buildings (what little are left) give you a glimpse into the German immigrants that lived there. All of the businesses are black or Mexican now along 24th Street. Many blacks started moving to the east side in the 60's - and it became a 90% black neighborhood by 1985. East High School ( 20th & Van Brunt, now a middle school I believe) had a diverse population when I was in school at Northeast High in 1980 ( 3rd & Van Brunt). Do some homework before hurling politically correct cliches.

[chrizow]

um, ok....i was basically trying to agree with you, but that's fine.

i called it the east side because my family, who is from all over that area (my uncles, grandparents, father went to East) still refer to it as such. "such and such had the best burgers on the east side." they were/are clearly unaware of the technical boundaries of the area. so no i dont listen to the media, i listen to my dozens of family members who grew up in the area (and some remain, if they are still alive). i'll keep your boundaries in mind.

and i mean "segregation" in the "white flight, leave all black people behind" sense. i dont think that's terribly arguable.

and i've lived in kc all my life. all my family is from kc. unfortunately that hasn't made me an expert on the specifics of what the "east side" is. though i will go ahead and say that the area around 18th and vine suffers from the problems i mentioned even if it's not on the "East side." shit man.

[KCPowercat]

there is no book of KC neighborhood boundaries......call it whatever. Long time residents even have their own ideas....

Call it whatever you want...we all know what you are saying.

Let's not waste any more time debating "boundaries" of names of areas, it's counter productive. Thanks.

[LyRiCaL GanGsTa]

there is no book of KC neighborhood boundaries......call it whatever. Long time residents even have their own ideas....

If you go to the people that actually live in the neighborhoods and ask them, they know. Why do you act like it doesn't matter? It does matter. More to the point and issue is that people discuss neighborhoods by thier stereotypical viewpoint and hearsay. I say let the truth set your ass free.

I wasn't trying to criticize you chrizow as much as I was ticked about the politically correct crap above your post. Newscasters refer to any incident east of Main Street as the east side, which I hate. I would encourage anyone to drive down 24th street between Jackson and Van Brunt to experience KC's true east side.

[macnw]

People need to be tolerant of each others opinons. Just because one person does not agree with someone else, there should be some understanding. Sometimes its ok to agree to disagree. 18th and Vine represents a unique opportunity for this city. For what was once a "black city," 18th street can help heal some of the long-standing wounds in this community. We must lose the "attitude" of white vs black. That was then, this is now. Let's not make the same mistakes. GO KC!!!!

[trailerkid]

I realize 18&Vine is quite a cookie cutter development, but I find the mixture of history and the new a bit interesting. Every time I've been in this area there has always been a nice crowd of tourists and museum visitors. I understand this area is considered a "cultural heritage" area and there is an effort to keep out businesses that don't complement this legacy. However, it is ridiculous to continue sitting on pieces of property at the expense of the neighborhood as a whole.

There are other pieces of the puzzle to a neighborhood that don't have to be geared towards cultural heritage. Not everyone visiting this area will go see live jazz or want to eat at the Peach Tree. Something must be done to broaden the horizons of 18&Vine and turn it into something larger than just a museum complex with a couple restaurants. Where are the interesting neighborhood shops and services? There is already a strong base of people visiting this neighborhood, but it's time for it to elevate into something larger. Why not have boutiques, night clubs, record stores, salons, etc. mixing with the existing businesses? 18&Vine could become one of KC's most trendy neighborhoods if there was support for welcoming new and unique business people instead of excluding anyone who doesn't cater to the area's cultural heritage.

[macnw]

Why can't 18th and Vine showcase African-American artists in the community. Connect 18th and Vine with the Crossroads and have an expanded First Friday that incorporates both areas. Ideally, the arts crowd would expand and become more aware of the potential of 18th and Vine. More housing and shops will follow...

[leaf]

yeah it would be awesome if 18th and Vine had a ton of free/cheap jazz going on during First Friday.  if they do, and i am not aware of it, feel free to flog me, but first friday is a great opportunity to get a couple hundred people to amble over to the 18th and Vine area.  perhaps even First Friday after-party/events with jazz, etc.

[barkerr]

I just want to see something done with that eyesore that was once a gas station on the southwest corner of 18th and the Paseo. That thing looks like a bomb was dropped on it.

[KCRealtor]

Not sure what is happening, but the filling station is now gone.  Just a big piece of equipement there now.  Suppose that means something good is happening?

I just want to see something done with that eyesore that was once a gas station on the southwest corner of 18th and the Paseo. That thing looks like a bomb was dropped on it.