KCRag Forum

I think this is an exciting project for Westport, and exactly the direction the area needs to go. Fewer bars, more retail/residential. And maybe some day an acknowledgement that the neighborhood extends across Broadway to the east. More bars on that side!

Would really hate to lose Char Bar, however, and their fantastic patio. Perhaps a new location can be incorporated into the project.

That being said, 10+ story towers are welcome in any neighborhood at any time IMO.

Char Bar is one of the most unique patios in city, very lively and fun with the patio games - and allows dogs. Our favorite summer hangout with dog, would be a true loss. Seems everyone knows our dog, including people never met - "oh, so that must be (dog's name)". A true neighborhood hangout with mix of visitors who also find it unique.

The project otherwise wouldn't be so bad if it could accommodate urbane streetfront retail with housing above. I sense this is a suburban minded developer or owner not experienced with developing true pedestrian scale living, integrating seamlessly with rest of Westport, rather than creating an isolated project. Will give them a chance as it's not a final design.

earthling wrote:The project otherwise wouldn't be so bad if it could accommodate urbane streetfront retail with housing above. I sense this is a suburban minded developer or owner not experienced with developing true pedestrian scale living, integrating seamlessly with rest of Westport, rather than creating an isolated project. Will give them a chance as it's not a final design.

What makes you say that? This project does have street front retail for the entire first floor. The building looks to go right up to the sidewalk and there is nothing to "isolate" it.

Now, the aesthetics of the building could be up for debate, but it is hard to tell what this would end up looking like from the black and white elevation, and the developer has said it is a preliminary design that will be reworked.

The only other project I can find from this developer is the proposed 6 story apartment building just east of the Plaza. I haven't seen any renderings for that project.

Does it have streetfront retail along entire stretch? Nice if it does but didn't come across that way. If it doesn't, then it does isolate the entire stretch. But if it does, then kudos.

Design for the era, do it well and preserve it. A city is much more interesting when we have diversity of design. When the next look takes hold in 25 years we'll have all these cool turn of the century designs that look great mixed in with glass curtain walls, brick and terra cotta.

We should care more about reducing street level isolation and interior usability than the design fitting any arbitrary ideal. About the only thing to comment on about aesthetics is material quality and construction.

A good example is the P&L companion building. Yes, it's a faux historic look and someone is not going to like that it's all a veneer but what it there is clearly done well.

Exterior quality is a good tell for how the project is being managed. If the developer isn't willing to tell the materials being used what else are they trying to hide? If they're building stone veneer columns and putting cedar on the underside of balconies they should be proud to say this.

This project disappeared from the development tracking site. Interesting. Must be changing it already.

^Generally agree that street experience/integration is more important than trying to fit into Westport era design (at least for that location). Hopcat (?) at Westport/Broadway did a pretty decent job with complementing era design but should have done a grand corner entrance for such a primo corner, not a non-descript side entrance.

There will be the opening to get to the garage (in phase 2). There is also an "art gallery", which looks like it may be the lobby of the building, but that looks comparatively small. The rest of the first floor is street facing retail. 3 Large spaces (including new space for Char Bar) and 1 smaller space.

^Assuming you are correctly interpreting that, thanks for the clarification.

Oddly, the plan slices off the part of the Manor Square Building that is currently the primary Pennsylvania Street Entrance, and the Box Office for the Tivoli. It looks like it proposes moving this entry to the smaller entry by KCAVP and the elevator, on the old Manor Bread Building.

Additionally, I don't see a direct connection to the current Manor Square from the parking garage. Today this connection is two stacked pedestrian bridges, which also provide egress for the movie theater above. This plan only shows an open space.

A photo of the apartment proposal:

THE RESULTS ARE IN: https://twitter.com/kclightrail/status/ ... 7335117824

I have no problem with 10-story buildings in and around Westport as long as they don't come at the expense of demolishing historic buildings in the district--and are limited to specific locations where they make sense. There is already a 13-story apartment building at SW Trafficway and Mill, and the Embassy Suites, which I think is 12 stories. I don't know if 39th and Main is considered Westport by most people, but the Hawthorne Plaza apartment building is 10 stories.

If they are replacing surface lots, and there is an attempt to respect the neighborhood, there should be increased density. Westport is a entertainment and retail node near public transit, so it makes sense to have larger buildings spread around among the more low-rise historic buildings.

Fuck it. Build this tower!

So I was looking at the website for this project's website (which was concerning for a number of reasons), and found this drawing for the project (which they apparently think is supposed to be in Kansas City, Kansas). This looks like it might just be phase 2, although the garage entrance still seems off. I'm guessing this was even more of a preliminary design than what was presented, although it might be closer to what the final product might be, with a more "historic" look.

Actually, on a second look, I noticed it says "to be build over an existing parking garage". This may have been the original plan to actually go on top of the garage and this view shows the the building from Mill Street.



http://www.actionpactdesign.com/ontheboards

Not the worst design presented, would look good with quality materials

This will be interesting to follow. From a form/legibility standpoint it would be nice if we pushed the larger buildings out to the major streets and left the side streets with shorter buildings. And as someone who parks in that garage every day, I'm skeptical of the ability of a 33' ROW to handle the cars that would come with that building. If CharBar is even a little busy, that stretch of Pennsylvania can be challenging to get down. I'm not at all sure how the street widening process works, but I'd also be concerned that Pennsylvania would have to get widened to make this work.

There are much larger--and denser cities--in the world that function with just one- or two-lane streets with parking on both sides.

FangKC wrote:There are much larger--and denser cities--in the world that function with just one- or two-lane streets with parking on both sides.

and in some of those cities. People like to walk for a half mile just to eat somewhere!

chaglang wrote:This will be interesting to follow. From a form/legibility standpoint it would be nice if we pushed the larger buildings out to the major streets and left the side streets with shorter buildings. And as someone who parks in that garage every day, I'm skeptical of the ability of a 33' ROW to handle the cars that would come with that building. If CharBar is even a little busy, that stretch of Pennsylvania can be challenging to get down. I'm not at all sure how the street widening process works, but I'd also be concerned that Pennsylvania would have to get widened to make this work.

sit outside of a 30-story residential tower for awhile and see how many cars actually come in and out at one time.