City Target (CityTarget)

[smh]

NextSTL reporting that Target has signed a letter of intent in CWE St. Louis to develop a City Target. Can KC be far behind?

http://nextstl.com/2015/02/city-target- ... at-cortex/

Target has stated Boston is the only city slated for CityTarget development in 2015. Earlier this month the company announced it will open 15 stores in 2015. The Boston CityTarget, eight TargetExpress locations, and six general merchandise stores.

The St. Louis CityTarget will be located at the northwest corner of Forest Park and Vandeventer avenues in midtown. This is directly across the street from the new 380,000 square foot Ikea currently under construction. The 164-unit 465-bed Standard, a five-story luxury student apartment development, at the northeast corner of the intersection is expected to open this fall.

[beautyfromashes]

Always said one should go at The Landing (63rd and Troost). Would change the entire area east of Troost top to bottom.

[flyingember]

Always said one should go at The Landing (63rd and Troost). Would change the entire area east of Troost top to bottom.

63rd and Prospect would be another good choice.

[beautyfromashes]

63rd and Prospect would be another good choice.

I don't think you'd get any synergy in that spot. The Landing location would pull redevelopment from Brookside to Troost and from the Universities to 63rd. Also, it would pull people into the core instead of having them drive barely off the highway from the south suburbs. You'd be surprised how many people would be afraid to drive to 63rd and Troost. Breaking that fear should be a goal.

[flyingember]

63rd and Prospect would be another good choice.

I don't think you'd get any synergy in that spot. The Landing location would pull redevelopment from Brookside to Troost and from the Universities to 63rd. Also, it would pull people into the core instead of having them drive barely off the highway from the south suburbs. You'd be surprised how many people would be afraid to drive to 63rd and Troost. Breaking that fear should be a goal.

Imagine you're going to Target trying to sell them to build in the urban core.

It's already a tough sell. The area is already quite empty of people compared to the suburbs and is reliant on low income transit riders.

You tell them your argument is they need to locate a mile further west because it would drive redevelopment in an area developers aren't interested in today, and it would help people not be scared to go to the area. They'd laugh you out of the room.

Versus being right next to a freeway for easy deliveries and easy access for people who live further away in the urban core.

They'll chose the spot that gives them a nice sign visible to the tens of thousands of cars driving on US 71.

A Target is something that has a customer base 10-15 miles away. Does it really matter if redevelopment starts at Prospect and works towards Troost anyways?


Go back to the St. Louis Target. It's 3 miles from Busch Stadium.
In KC that's like KC's 39th and Main.

Would we turn down Target wanting to buy out the community blood bank at 40th (it's a large lot and doesn't have teardown issues) and build a store there because it's not downtown? it would make sense, they would be well located for both downtown and the plaza/brookside and would still be far away from their store at State Line.

[lock+load]

63rd and Prospect would be another good choice.

I don't think you'd get any synergy in that spot. The Landing location would pull redevelopment from Brookside to Troost and from the Universities to 63rd. Also, it would pull people into the core instead of having them drive barely off the highway from the south suburbs. You'd be surprised how many people would be afraid to drive to 63rd and Troost. Breaking that fear should be a goal.

Imagine you're going to Target trying to sell them to build in the urban core.

It's already a tough sell. The area is already quite empty of people compared to the suburbs and is reliant on low income transit riders.

You tell them your argument is they need to locate a mile further west because it would drive redevelopment in an area developers aren't interested in today, and it would help people not be scared to go to the area. They'd laugh you out of the room.

Versus being right next to a freeway for easy deliveries and easy access for people who live further away in the urban core.

They'll chose the spot that gives them a nice sign visible to the tens of thousands of cars driving on US 71.

A Target is something that has a customer base 10-15 miles away. Does it really matter if redevelopment starts at Prospect and works towards Troost anyways?

It's a City Target. There is already plenty of room at 63rd and Prospect to build a regular Target if they wanted to. No point in bothering with a City Target.

[flyingember]

Have you checked if they can fulfill parking minimums?

it's more than space for a building

[smh]

Concur with lock+load, you guys are describing sites more appropriate for actual Target. CityTarget could go somewhere like where the new parking garage for Corrigan Station is going at 19th/Walnut.

[mgh7676]

A City Target on the surface lot at 20th & Grand change that entire area. The downside? Cashew visitors would have nowhere to park..

[rxlexi]

Hmm. A nice get for STL urban living, but at that location, near IKEA, they could have just built a "real" Target. Would have been cooler in the heart of CWE, or somewhere downtown, walkable, etc.

That would be my hope for such a place in KC. Crossroads or bust.

STL already has a Target with enclosed parking garage off Hampton in St. Louis Hills, well within the "city".

[flyingember]

Concur with lock+load, you guys are describing sites more appropriate for actual Target. CityTarget could go somewhere like where the new parking garage for Corrigan Station is going at 19th/Walnut.

A CityTarget is half a city block if one level.

A regular target is about 100,000-175,000 sq ft
Target Express is their tiny concept at around 1/6th the size. so it's 20,000-29000

The first CityTarget in Chicago (I've been there, nice store) is 55,000 square feet
that's 0.0019 square miles

half the lot at 20th and grand (to maintain the alley) is 0.00168 square miles

so if under the Corrigan station parkaging garage would use the first two stories. so it's doable

[flyingember]

Hmm. A nice get for STL urban living, but at that location, near IKEA, they could have just built a "real" Target. Would have been cooler in the heart of CWE, or somewhere downtown, walkable, etc.

That would be my hope for such a place in KC. Crossroads or bust.

STL already has a Target with enclosed parking garage off Hampton in St. Louis Hills, well within the "city".

the lot is halfway in size between the two the lot is 0.029 square miles. a full sized target needs 0.035 square miles for a small regular store.

So they couldn't build a real target without tearing out more. I'd rather they stay tight to the lot and not do that.

remember, there's doubtless parking requirements using up half the lot

[rxlexi]

the lot is halfway in size between the two the lot is 0.029 square miles. a full sized target needs 0.035 square miles for a small regular store.

So they couldn't build a real target without tearing out more. I'd rather they stay tight to the lot and not do that.

remember, there's doubtless parking requirements using up half the lot

Should have been more specific. I was referencing Pace Development's Midtown Station project overall, not the specific lot in the Target story. They're building a giant strip mall on FPP, I would think there is ample room for a full-size Target if necessary.

I do like that the City Target would seemingly be built right up to the street. The CWE Whole Foods in the first floor of a n/c residential building, in a dense neighborhood, is a much bigger deal in my opinion, and very impressive for STL.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Prospect? Troost?

I would say Troost. I would think Troost would be more attractive to Target. Reason, the nearby Brookside and Waldo neighborhoods.

[FangKC]

If I were guessing where a City Target might go, I would say the parcel where the Conklin-Fangman auto dealership is located on Main near Linwood.

The parcel itself would be ideal if the auto dealership ever moved to another location (like they tend to do). It would be relatively easy to demolish the building and erect a new store, because the parcel is fairly large, and the auto dealership also controls adjacent buildings and parking lots.

It falls within the Greater Downtown designation. It's close to downtown residents, Midtown, and Hyde Park. It's closer to many Plaza residents than the Target on Ward Parkway. It's near two bus routes (on Main, and on Linwood going east). It's also on a major traffic artery through the City, and the one most likely to get a streetcar line extension.

It's also near Home Depot and Costco, as well as Crown Center, and retailers generally like to locate near other retail nodes. A lot of new apartments are being built near that location.

[lock+load]

If I were guessing where a City Target might go, I would say the parcel where the Conklin-Fangman auto dealership is located on Main near Linwood.

Seems like another spot where they'd just build a suburban store. Why build urban right across the street from two huge suburban style stores?

[longviewmo]

If I were guessing where a City Target might go, I would say the parcel where the Conklin-Fangman auto dealership is located on Main near Linwood.

Seems like another spot where they'd just build a suburban store. Why build urban right across the street from two huge suburban style stores?

I agree with this. Also, it'd be nice to have at least one auto dealer downtown-ish. I doubt it moves though, this dealership was one of the very, very few that reopened after GM tried to close them.

[flyingember]

the auto dealer just reopened a few years back. forcing them out so quickly would take a big payout and that means a bigger store for more profit potential. I agree that would be a big store spot

[FangKC]

Oh you people all be so crazy.

You didn't think I would suggest that site without a much bigger development involved, would you? I am FangKC afterall.

Mixed use. Target store, and other retail (in blue). Stand-alone apartment towers, and others built over retail. Better realignment of streets going east-west (to get rid of the awkward intersections), and reopening Baltimore from 31st to Linwood.

The project accomplishes several of my sinister goals:

Adds more people living along a future streetcar line extension.
Adds more people living near the Target store, and retail near it.
Adds more people living near Penn Valley Park as users.
Still allows some residents to drive to the Target store, and park in the garage.
Apt. towers along 31st Street have views of the park and downtown. Those would be the more premium apartments. Other apartments would be more middle and lower income ones.
Would allow more seniors to live on mass transit corridor near shopping, medical and dental services, as well as cultural ones.

[flyingember]

that's not bad. start with zoning. here's what that area is right now

B4, Heavy Business/Commercial 4 District
The primary purpose of the B4, Heavy Business/Commercial district is to accommodate "heavier" commercial activities and a limited range of industrial uses with operating characteristics that make them generally incompatible with mixed-use or neighborhood-oriented environments.