Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Discuss items in the urban core outside of Downtown as described above. Everything in the core including the east side (18th & Vine area), Plaza, Westport, Brookside, Valentine, Waldo, 39th street, & the entire midtown area.
KCLover
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by KCLover » Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:32 pm

I heard a rumor today that is apparently making it's way around town that Kohls is coming to the plaza. I laughed so hard I about peed my pants, but sadly it's sort of believable if they had that kind of space available.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by Highlander » Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:12 am

KCLover wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:32 pm
I heard a rumor today that is apparently making it's way around town that Kohls is coming to the plaza. I laughed so hard I about peed my pants, but sadly it's sort of believable if they had that kind of space available.
I really hope this is not the case. I do hate to say it but sometimes it is indeed better the devil you know (Highwoods) than the devil you don't (current owners)

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by MidtownCat » Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:56 am

KCLover wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:32 pm
I heard a rumor today that is apparently making it's way around town that Kohls is coming to the plaza. I laughed so hard I about peed my pants, but sadly it's sort of believable if they had that kind of space available.
Hahaha. Wouldn’t that be something. The transformation to the Legends would be complete!

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by mgsports » Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:15 pm

Kohl's already at Legends at Plaza Speedway Shops.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by WoodDraw » Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:28 pm

The plaza has so many handicaps between single ownership and zoning restrictions that it's going to be hard to change.

Is there much harm in letting it become an older part of the community? Neighborhoods change and I think the plaza is moving more towards retired baby-boomers on the outside and safe restaurants on the inside.

I just don't see much hope for retail turning around. Higheoods couldn't do it and the new owners can't. Unless we want to ditch the bowl concept or if they're willing to sell off parcels, I dunno

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by DaveKCMO » Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:28 pm

Which Plaza stall is big enough for a Kohl's?

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by horizons82 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:18 am

DaveKCMO wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:28 pm
Which Plaza stall is big enough for a Kohl's?
The other half of Cinemark, post-Nordstroms, would be. That said, I have a hard time believing Kohl's is coming.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by TrolliKC » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:19 am

WoodDraw wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:28 pm
The plaza has so many handicaps between single ownership and zoning restrictions that it's going to be hard to change.

Is there much harm in letting it become an older part of the community? Neighborhoods change and I think the plaza is moving more towards retired baby-boomers on the outside and safe restaurants on the inside.

I just don't see much hope for retail turning around. Higheoods couldn't do it and the new owners can't. Unless we want to ditch the bowl concept or if they're willing to sell off parcels, I dunno
With Nordstrom’s moving to the Plaza - retired baby boomers is definitely the demographic the Plaza is headed for.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by earthling » Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:29 am

^The Plaza Nordstoms will apparently attempt to target Millennial women with services rather than stuff. It will apparently be a smaller store that wil focus on services while products will be rotated more often given less space (and to keep it fresh). But agree in general Plaza residents are more and more leaning 50+ as downtown/midtown pickup steam.

Whatever the Plaza morphs into would expect any down periods to be revived when the streetcar goes by. Given malls are dying they need to diversify as much as possible into mixed use either way.

BTW, went through Plaza other night and it was pretty busy with foot traffic after stores closed. It hasn't really lost foot traffic, it has maybe lost shoppers.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by beautyfromashes » Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:04 am

Someone explain why the Plaza isn’t considered ‘mixed use’. If it doesn’t fit the definition, it’s as close as Kansas City has. Office, retail, surrounded by housing. Can get your shoes repaired, hair salon, coffee shops, buy a book, go to the dentist and take a yoga class.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by earthling » Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:27 am

It's not mixed used in a true urban sense. No housing mixed in w/retail (on the outskirts), very little night life outside bars/restaurants (need to add more music/cultural venues), almost no neighborhood amenities, etc. It has some semblance of mixed use but needs to diversify a lot more to be a fully functioning urban district. KC has few truly pedestrian scale urban neighborhoods and it wouldn't take much to get Plaza there.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by kcmiz » Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:31 am

There is an important distinction between mixed use buildings and mixed use development.

The collective prorperties that make up the Country Club Plaza have a mix of uses, office, residential, and retail. However, most of the buildings are single use.

The gold standard mixed use urban building has retail on the ground floor and 4 to 12 stories of office/residential on top of the retail. This is the type of building the plaza (and all of the urban core) needs more of.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by WoodDraw » Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:52 pm

Yeah, the plaza is mostly made up of single use buildings. The bowl design makes it hard to be mixed use because, well, you can't build up.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by beautyfromashes » Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:35 pm

WoodDraw wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:52 pm
Yeah, the plaza is mostly made up of single use buildings. The bowl design makes it hard to be mixed use because, well, you can't build up.
I think you will find a lot of opposition to removing the bowl design, at least from the general public. I’m sure many on this board would be for the removal.

I just look as the Plaza as the tourist district. That’s why places like Cheesecake Factory, PF Chang’s, the Melting Pot, Kona Grill are still there while Jax or Stock Hill or Black Dirt choose to be off Plaza. Even with some of the changes coming (Nordstrom, Capital Grill, etc) I don’t think that will change.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by Highlander » Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:52 pm

beautyfromashes wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:35 pm
WoodDraw wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:52 pm
Yeah, the plaza is mostly made up of single use buildings. The bowl design makes it hard to be mixed use because, well, you can't build up.
I think you will find a lot of opposition to removing the bowl design, at least from the general public. I’m sure many on this board would be for the removal.

I just look as the Plaza as the tourist district. That’s why places like Cheesecake Factory, PF Chang’s, the Melting Pot, Kona Grill are still there while Jax or Stock Hill or Black Dirt choose to be off Plaza. Even with some of the changes coming (Nordstrom, Capital Grill, etc) I don’t think that will change.
I am more than fine with the "bowl" design and I think it's overplayed here by several posters. It's hardly the constraint on the plaza people seem to think it is. 47th street comprises a fair portion of the plaza and has numerous tall buildings. Putting taller buildings in the interior of the plaza would require destroying the historic buildings with Spanish architecture. Do people really want to do this? I'm also fine with the regional shopping center concept and hope it remains so as long as regional shopping centers are a thing. It's unique. That's what drives the restaurants and hotels in the area. The ambiance has helped anchor a very wealthy residential area on the periphery, something that KC desperately needs (lest all the wealth in the metro resides in JoCo). Take one away and the rest starts to collapse.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by flyingember » Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:34 pm

WoodDraw wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:52 pm
Yeah, the plaza is mostly made up of single use buildings. The bowl design makes it hard to be mixed use because, well, you can't build up.
The Plaza is basically 13 blocks

4 of the blocks are mixed use with offices + retail
3 put parking over or behind the retail space.
3 are retail, office and parking

So the plaza is majority mixed use. It's low density, sure, but you won't find the same amount of square footage anywhere in the city with as much focus on mixed use per square foot.

Given it was built to be a suburban shopping center serving detached homes that it's mixed use at all is amazing. There were once at least 5 gas stations on the plaza.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by TheLastGentleman » Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:38 pm

I think the spanish style blocks with garages in the middle could be reworked to handle taller buildings. I'd argue, though, that they need to be really sensitive. They should only add 4 or less stories to the tops of the original buildings and should be designed in the exact faux spanish style of the original buildings. No compromising. As beautyfromashes said, the place is a tourist attraction, and most of that comes from the architecture

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by FangKC » Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:18 pm

flyingember wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:34 pm
WoodDraw wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:52 pm
Yeah, the plaza is mostly made up of single use buildings. The bowl design makes it hard to be mixed use because, well, you can't build up.
Given it was built to be a suburban shopping center serving detached homes that it's mixed use at all is amazing. There were once at least 5 gas stations on the plaza.
There used to also be more apartments north of 47th Street.

Image

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by beautyfromashes » Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:56 pm

TheLastGentleman wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:38 pm
I think the spanish style blocks with garages in the middle could be reworked to handle taller buildings. I'd argue, though, that they need to be really sensitive. They should only add 4 or less stories to the tops of the original buildings and should be designed in the exact faux spanish style of the original buildings. No compromising. As beautyfromashes said, the place is a tourist attraction, and most of that comes from the architecture
Trying to think of where on The Plaza this could be done. The block behind Classic Cup is the only block I could think of this being done easily. But, I think the best place to add new residents is between 47th and 46th where there are several empty fields. I don’t know why they aren’t being built out.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by smh » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:39 am

TheLastGentleman wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:38 pm
I think the spanish style blocks with garages in the middle could be reworked to handle taller buildings. I'd argue, though, that they need to be really sensitive. They should only add 4 or less stories to the tops of the original buildings and should be designed in the exact faux spanish style of the original buildings. No compromising. As beautyfromashes said, the place is a tourist attraction, and most of that comes from the architecture
This is what I'd like to see. 4-6 stories of apartments added to the shorter buildings while maintaining the traditional facades.

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