Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Discuss items in the urban core outside of Downtown as described above. Everything in the core including the east side (18th & Vine area), Plaza, Westport, Brookside, Valentine, Waldo, 39th street, & the entire midtown area.
nomadcowatbk
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby nomadcowatbk » Mon May 21, 2018 4:27 pm

why don't they go after CVS or Walgreens if they would fill a space and pay steady rent?

earthling
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby earthling » Mon May 21, 2018 4:40 pm

^And what many who live on Plaza want.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby Brodees » Mon May 21, 2018 5:36 pm

flyingember wrote:Two more stores

Made in KC
Alter'D State

https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/2- ... club-plaza


The article is incorrect re Altar'd State's move into the Customer Service location. I believe that Jesus will in fact be taking the wheel in the spot recently vacated by Eduardo Bauer at 436 Nichols Rd.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby taxi » Tue May 22, 2018 7:20 am

nomadcowatbk wrote:why don't they go after CVS or Walgreens if they would fill a space and pay steady rent?

My point is, maybe they have already approached them. And there are many factors. Stores like that have a guidelines for choosing locations. Everyone bitching about not having one of these 2 stores on the Plaza might take a look and make some calculations: there is a CVS at 50st and Main and 39th and Main, a Walgreens at 39th and Broadway. That is walking distance for folks with 2 working legs and for those without, on transit routes and with their own huge parking lots.

The days of quaint corner drugstores are over, unless the density can support it and I doubt we will ever see that here.

earthling
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby earthling » Tue May 22, 2018 7:38 am

Well the desire is for 50th/Main CVS to move within Plaza. The Plaza is one of the higher density locations in KC with all of the hi/mid-rises. And you have all the hotels as well as shoppers. A drugstore is common in most every urban living shopping district I've seen. Those who move to Plaza from larger cities are baffled it doesn't have a couple drugstores. If Plaza owners have tried and CVS/Walgreens aren't interested then it would be nice to put that statement out, but it won't change the desire for one directly on Plaza by those who live around it (outside SW Plaza).

nomadcowatbk
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby nomadcowatbk » Tue May 22, 2018 1:05 pm

earthling wrote: If Plaza owners have tried and CVS/Walgreens aren't interested then it would be nice to put that statement out, but it won't change the desire for one directly on Plaza by those who live around it (outside SW Plaza).


could there no available space for a drug store?

earthling
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby earthling » Tue May 22, 2018 1:40 pm

The spot next to Rye (old Firehouse Subs) is small but there are urban CVS/Walgreens about that size that stock higher. Rye probably doesn't need all that space, drugstore could potentially expand to half of it. The building with Apple store still has space.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby FangKC » Tue May 22, 2018 3:20 pm

Why would any of these drugstores move to a rental spot when they are already in a building they might own just a short distance away, or have a cheaper long-term rent, which would essentially capture the same market area?

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby mgsports » Tue May 22, 2018 3:48 pm

Another Drug store not in KC area yet.

earthling
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby earthling » Tue May 22, 2018 3:49 pm

CVS would get a lot more walk-by business that they wouldn't at 50th/Main location for one. More hotel guests as well who don't have car. Plaza shoppers who need to grab something but wouldn't walk over to 50th/Main, or step in as a reminder of something when walking or seeing on 'mall guide'.

Being in high pedestrian traffic districts is definitely something retailers factor. Is it enough to justify closing 50th/Main, I don't know but it's not a very busy store and most who live on E and N side would rather have drugstore in walking distance than having to drive/bike up to 50th/Main - hotel visitors too. I visit a drugstore almost every time I travel w/hotel stay - walk to one if I can.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby Highlander » Tue May 22, 2018 10:56 pm

Where Gucci was and I guess Velvet Vines is right now use to be a drugstore. I believe it was a Rexall drug. It survived a long time at that location but as plaza rents started climbing, they could not sell enough inexpensive drugstore product to justify the higher rents. I do not see this changing for the foreseeable future. While the plaza has a pretty good density in the area, I don't see that many local residents venturing into the Plaza from surrounding condos and apartments for this service, there's simply too many other options that can be accessed easily by a vehicle while taking care of other needs (e.g., groceries) that the plaza doesn't offer and hotels don't have enough rooms on or near the plaza to support a drug store.

The plaza has a single owner and they don't appear to have any interest in transforming the plaza into a local shopping area. Multiple owners and yea, maybe someone would put a drugstore in but the current owner clearly has a different vision. For now it is a regional shopping center. Perhaps retail woes will drive the plaza eventually in another direction but providing local services is not a high priority.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby earthling » Wed May 23, 2018 6:55 am

Yeah to your point the single ownership is maybe more of a challenge than high rents. Michigan Ave has much higher rents (relative to foot traffic/density of course) with several drugstores but doesn't have single owner shaping the tenants. The Plaza had many neighborhood amenities when Nichols owned it but Nichols specifically targeted that balance. The local drugstore operator could not afford rent when Highwoods took over but CVS/Walgreens could. Brookside shops rent is high too and has a CVS (prices higher too).

And that brings to the point that if new Plaza owners won't cater to the neighborhood, then the Plaza Tennis Center location would be a great way to tie streetcar stop with amenities that would be conducive to both neighborhood and foot traffic generated - ideally CVS, Plaza Library moved there, perhaps KCPD foot patrol division or MainCor office and "safe zone" - with maybe tennis courts on roof or top level. CVS may be willing to move the unbusy 50th/Main location to Plaza streetcar stop given how much foot traffic it should generate.

KC has relatively few true urban mixed use neighborhoods and the Plaza has all the bones to become a great one but the single owner in middle not catering to the neighborhood holds it back. Those who move to Plaza from larger city centers are annoyed by lack of amenities in walking distance or while hitting Plaza shops/restaurants (except SE Plaza). Maybe with shopping centers struggling to adapt to an online world, new Plaza owners will eventually target more of a mix and recognize there's a neighborhood surrounding it.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby flyingember » Wed May 23, 2018 8:04 am

earthling wrote:And that brings to the point that if new Plaza owners won't cater to the neighborhood, then the Plaza Tennis Center location would be a great way to tie streetcar stop with amenities that would be conducive to both neighborhood and foot traffic generated - ideally CVS, Plaza Library moved there, perhaps KCPD foot patrol division or MainCor office and "safe zone" - with maybe tennis courts on roof or top level. CVS may be willing to move the unbusy 50th/Main location to Plaza streetcar stop given how much foot traffic it should generate.

I expect the rents on this hypothetical new building in that spot would be too high for any drug store to locate there. A drug store would locate way on the far side of the Plaza because the prime spot outside a streetcar stop would have the highest rents in the district.

Notice how many years CVS went without renovating their space directly across from one of the busiest transit centers in the city. This isn't a business locating in prime spots. It's a business where people will go where they are because their customers need to go there. They don't need to locate in prime spots to get business, just a good enough spot.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby earthling » Wed May 23, 2018 8:40 am

See first paragraph. CVS is in Brookside shops and many other higher rent shopping districts. If the foot traffic for Plaza/streetcar stop can generate more revenue than the not so busy 50th/Main location, they may find it a benefit to move.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby taxi » Wed May 23, 2018 10:27 am

This is a stupid conversation. The Plaza owners could care less if you forgot your toothbrush. Use your finger.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby earthling » Wed May 23, 2018 10:39 am

Nichols did when they owned it, which is the point. This sites tend to promote building ideal _urban_neighborhoods_. The Plaza used to have a good balance and it's not stupid to promote getting there again. It's hardly unrealistic.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby flyingember » Wed May 23, 2018 10:58 am

earthling wrote:Nichols did when they owned it, which is the point. This sites tend to promote building ideal _urban_neighborhoods_. The Plaza used to have a good balance and it's not stupid to promote getting there again. It's hardly unrealistic.

This is a good point. But it started out as a suburban shopping center built for the car so it's changed style before. It even had gas stations.

The current owners run larger regional malls, outlet malls and such. To me this tells us we should expect it to look more like a shopping mall with a variety of stores meant to serve a larger area than just a single neighborhood.

Oak Park Mall could be a good model of what to expect. Nordstrom is moving to the plaza after all.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby earthling » Wed May 23, 2018 11:22 am

Yup, the new owners don't seem much different than Highwoods in terms of recognizing the surrounding neighborhood (at least Nichols did despite being car centered initially). The streetcar will change the dynamics. Hence the idea of re-purposing/expanding the use of Plaza Tennis Center. But if new owners struggle competing with online world, they may need to expand their horizons and recognize the neighborhood. Completely valid to discuss.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby taxi » Wed May 23, 2018 3:36 pm

earthling wrote: Completely valid to discuss.

SAVE THE PLAZA!

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby earthling » Wed May 23, 2018 4:09 pm

Nah, re-invent it....

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=20330


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