KCRag Forum

Highlander wrote:

WoodDraw wrote:

yeliab wrote:Well I believe in a systemic change that would involve shifting the resources given to police to under-served communities which involves advocating for non-criminalizing alternatives when the conversation comes up. So here’s one: the Plaza could put on something for the kids to do, maybe an event by the creek where they could congregate in groups and still filter through the Plaza. Welcoming them into the community rather than casting them aside.

Think of it as reparations for the districts long history of racist and antisemetic exclusion.

I think this is fantastic idea.

I am sorry but this stuff is ridiculous. The Plaza isn't a playground, it is a business into which the owners have invested hundreds of millions of dollars. Loitering and aggressive behavior by youths of any color or creed have no place there and absolutely pose a risk to the business not to mention it's patrons. The idea the plaza owes some kind of "reparations" to anyone is absurd - the Plaza has changed hands twice since it was started by JC Nichols. Yea, there's a lot of stuff society could do to address the plight of the poor but it's neither the subject of this thread or the primary concern of the owners of the plaza. The plaza depends on people that actually do spend money, a lot of money, to purchase the goods of their shop owners and eat at their restaurants in order to survive. If those people do not feel safe on the Plaza, they will not patronize its businesses and that reality isn't going to wait until we address all the shortcomings of our economic system. The problems we are talking about need to be addressed as they happen: No customers - no plaza.

I was being a little sarcastic. The idea of night field trips through the plaza like it's a museum is weird. I don't really buy the idea that if only they had something to do close by they wouldn't harass cars and cause problems which is what I was trying to get at.

Yeah because locking them up is a better idea! Jesus, y'all need to log off and actually talk to some people because thinking all of this isn't related to the social, economic, and historic issues of the Plaza and Kansas City is, well, ignorant and short-sighted. No one is suggesting museum trips. I don't when the last time you were a teen in KC was, but it's boring as hell. Treating people with respect and dignity is more likely to have positive affects than the continued ramping up of policing.

But you've clearly done the research...

Yeliab, are you a teen? Knowing that might help some of us know how to correctly respond to your post. Thanks.

Actually an (adult) ethicist, a lifelong Kansas Citian, grassroots activist, and someone who has done research on local and national policing and public administration issues in an academic setting. You're welcome.

yeliab wrote:Actually an (adult) ethicist, a lifelong Kansas Citian, grassroots activist, and someone who has done research on local and national policing and public administration issues in an academic setting. You're welcome.

I have a background of working with youth age 11-17 in a practical setting. It's more suburban sure, but I've done it.

Years back I heard this interesting statement: Someone was on the phone at City Museum in StL. To paraphrase "it's not a museum, it's a playground for adults"

We don't need to control kids, we need to provide relevant alternatives across more of the city. Hanging out on the plaza is fine, it's what's done there that's the problem. People treat the kids who show up as thugs and it's no surprise they act accordingly.

We need more places across the city that are playgrounds for teenagers. Late hours, activities and the like where hanging out in groups with discipline and structure. When I was 12-13 going to the community center and we played video games. The mayor's nights were a good idea in the right direction but need to be year round. Doesn't take that many peers being responsible before it spreads.

We also need more teen jobs in the urban core. I had a job at hyvee at 16. Lots of people I knew did too. Teaches responsibility, you're around adults who can be good role models.

Our big problem is the same thing as plagues adults. We don't provide positive opportunities for kids like we do in the suburbs.

It’s a bit laughable to say that kids in this generation are bored, especially in an urban environment and that we need to provide things for them to do. I’d describe my childhood during the summer months, but it would make me sound old. The problem is not opportunities, it’s motivation.

flyingember wrote:

yeliab wrote:Actually an (adult) ethicist, a lifelong Kansas Citian, grassroots activist, and someone who has done research on local and national policing and public administration issues in an academic setting. You're welcome.

I have a background of working with youth age 11-17 in a practical setting. It's more suburban sure, but I've done it.

Years back I heard this interesting statement: Someone was on the phone at City Museum in StL. To paraphrase "it's not a museum, it's a playground for adults"

We don't need to control kids, we need to provide relevant alternatives across more of the city. Hanging out on the plaza is fine, it's what's done there that's the problem. People treat the kids who show up as thugs and it's no surprise they act accordingly.

We need more places across the city that are playgrounds for teenagers. Late hours, activities and the like where hanging out in groups with discipline and structure. When I was 12-13 going to the community center and we played video games. The mayor's nights were a good idea in the right direction but need to be year round. Doesn't take that many peers being responsible before it spreads.

We also need more teen jobs in the urban core. I had a job at hyvee at 16. Lots of people I knew did too. Teaches responsibility, you're around adults who can be good role models.

Our big problem is the same thing as plagues adults. We don't provide positive opportunities for kids like we do in the suburbs.

You're absolutely right. Idle hands do the Devil's work and empathy goes so far in understanding why this behavior might be occurring. I think we should be listening to them, asking what it is that they need/want (or helping them figure that out, because they're young and may not know), and helping them achieve that with the resources that would otherwise go into controlling them, which I readily acknowledge is not a simple nor easy solution.

Not that I would consider their activity riotous, but I think MLK's quote can also be applicable here: "A riot is the language of the unheard."

As an 18 year old, I can attest that it does seem like there isn't that much for teenagers to do in Kansas City for fun. Yes, we can go see a movie; go to the gym/community center; play video games at home; go to one of the two remaining malls in the metro. But I can say that often we'll just go out and wander around looking for something to do, whether that's downtown, the Crossroads, or the Plaza.

I can also agree to "idle hands do the devil's work" logic which is why more entry level, low skill jobs are needed for teenagers to occupy their time and to teach responsibility. I think this logic also supports why the numbers of underage drinking and vape/drug use are so high and a major problem/detriment for modern youth.

^ Why waste your time flipppng burgers when pretty much anyone can make more money doing something on their own? A kid today has entry to the marketplace that we couldn’t even dream of as a kid. If there is anything you are knowledgeable of, you can sell it on the internet for a good profit. Learn to program. Start a YouTube channel. Make music for the world. Young people drive fads and fashion like no other. Take advantage of it. Someone on here was asking about walking tours. Set one up. Urban farming. Whatever. No one knows you’re age or even your expertise on the internet. Take advantage.... and quit mobbing on The Plaza. Leading is so much cooler than following a bunch of idiots. “Here we are now, entertain us!”

To be fair, internet dreams don't put cash in your pocket now.

And frankly, working in a well run organization can teach you skills and behaviour you can't get any where else.

Internet careers are infamously insecure. Especially YouTube.

I’m not talking about ‘internet careers’ singularly. I’m talking about access to sell goods and the anonymity of business. these kids can literally learn about anything they want and , with some basic skills found in the library, make a living at their age or solve a major world problem. Instead, they choose to gather in a group and jump on cars. Creativity is not flourishing with these groups.

Oh, I thought we were commenting on JLowe2018's post.

Turn our vacant Burberry into a teen detention center?

Just spit ballin here.

beautyfromashes wrote:I’m not talking about ‘internet careers’ singularly. I’m talking about access to sell goods and the anonymity of business. these kids can literally learn about anything they want and , with some basic skills found in the library, make a living at their age or solve a major world problem. Instead, they choose to gather in a group and jump on cars. Creativity is not flourishing with these groups.

These -kids- can’t legally sign up to sell goods anywhere online. They can’t enter into a contract. Not quite sure how you think they have access. I’m not talking eBay where people ignore this, I’m talking about a commercial banking account.

The internet isn’t some magical place that makes someone money immediately no matter what.

Compare this idea to the plaza. The plaza provides security, clean surroundings, a good reputation, ways for customers to arrive, marketing, special events, etc. they spend money to make money.

An internet business needs space, money to buy inventory, marketing, shipping, customer service, a website and payment processor, etc.

In other word the basics you learn about in a high school business class. The things you need seed money to get.

Complaining about teens creativity being the reason they don’t spend $10000 they don’t have is like complaining the plaza doesnt have only unique one of a kind stores because a chain wanted to fill available space first and pay the going rate.

Visited the Plaza yesterday and heard from a store manager friend that, yes, Nordstrom is taking the Capital Grille block, Capital is moving to the Williams-Sonoma spot and all of Cinemark is going away, not just the theaters on the western side of Jefferson. Tesla might relocate to the Burberry spot, which personally I think would be a shame because it's such a good location for some mid-level luxury like Tory Burch or something similar that would appeal to the Lululemon and Free People crowd. Of course, just rumors until confirmed obviously...

Regarding Burberry's closing -- new management of the brand doesn't think the Plaza is "luxury enough"... has nothing to do with sales, which were good from what I understand. A shame. Maybe Taubman can work out a deal for them to stay in the next week... a bit of wishful thinking.

I'll miss the theater, but on reflection rarely attend. I simply cannot handle a traditional movie audience these days. It's Alamo or Tivoli for me.

What if they turned the actual Plaza theater back into a theater so at least there's one or two screens?

The AMC theater that was DT was my favorite of all time. I just really don't like the Alamo chairs. They feel more straight up like a folding chairs and the bench tables in front of you block the screen. I would guess a small theater on The Plaza would do better, but they'd charge much higher prices. Will never be able to beat a $5 movie at Cinemark.

who's interested in the rest of the cinemark space? do they think closing it will solve the kid problem when many of those kids don't even see movies?

beautyfromashes wrote:The AMC theater that was DT was my favorite of all time. I just really don't like the Alamo chairs. They feel more straight up like a folding chairs and the bench tables in front of you block the screen. I would guess a small theater on The Plaza would do better, but they'd charge much higher prices. Will never be able to beat a $5 movie at Cinemark.

Completely agree with the assessment on AMC downtown and the current Alamo. Plaza Cinemark is great when we decide at the last minute to see something and can get there in less than 10 minutes. But it always feels dirty and mismanaged...especially the concessions. Whenever we talk about the Plaza needing more neighborhood amenities, this cinema is one of the few things that takes me to the Plaza every other week and keeps me before or after for a bite to eat. I don't want to have to drive downtown, Merriam or Ward Parkway for a movie.