Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

[flyingember]

I think the idea is what should the plaza be? Go back to all these planning sessions across the city on what a development should look like.

At the end of the day the shop that should be there is the one that can pay the rent because people want to shop there.
It probably won't be an Orange Julius but having any sort of "they're not good enough" standard for shops is misguided.

Someone complaining the plaza is a teen clothing center or has bad restaurants or this or that is missing the point that the plaza has always served the culture of the times.

[earthling]

When Nichols owned it, they wanted a balance for the neighborhood and visitors, specifically targeting some neighborhood amenities. Highwoods didn't even acknowledge a neighborhood exists around it and they are really an office management company so is maybe why it headed towards more standard issue mall stores, though some decent scores. Hard to say what new owners want but I suspect they'll take anyone willing to pay the rent and not be selective or target shops unique to metro until about 100% leased.

[Highlander]

Someone complaining the plaza is a teen clothing center or has bad restaurants or this or that is missing the point that the plaza has always served the culture of the times.

Not really. The plaza spent much of its life as a unique upscale shopping center and a neighborhood shopping center for a very wealthy part of KC. It had a bit of an elitist flair that largely avoided both the type of shops and clientele of suburban style malls that were dominating from 1965 to 2000+. Highwoods destroyed any uniqueness (other than the architecture which they would have changed if they could) and turned the plaza to an outdoor version of Oak Park. It has an opportunity now to go back to its roots - from what I understand, that is the intention of the new owners and I wish them well in that regard.

[nomadcowatbk]

Someone complaining the plaza is a teen clothing center or has bad restaurants or this or that is missing the point that the plaza has always served the culture of the times.

Not really. The plaza spent much of its life as a unique upscale shopping center and a neighborhood shopping center for a very wealthy part of KC. It had a bit of an elitist flair that largely avoided both the type of shops and clientele of suburban style malls that were dominating from 1965 to 2000+. Highwoods destroyed any uniqueness (other than the architecture which they would have changed if they could) and turned the plaza to an outdoor version of Oak Park. It has an opportunity now to go back to its roots - from what I understand, that is the intention of the new owners and I wish them well in that regard.

many of the small businesses that used to there can't afford the rent now, only large chains can, but they'd probably take a Walgreens or CVS if they'll pay the rent, but maybe a drug chain doesn't think it's worth it

[LCDSI]

Someone complaining the plaza is a teen clothing center or has bad restaurants or this or that is missing the point that the plaza has always served the culture of the times.

Not really. The plaza spent much of its life as a unique upscale shopping center and a neighborhood shopping center for a very wealthy part of KC. It had a bit of an elitist flair that largely avoided both the type of shops and clientele of suburban style malls that were dominating from 1965 to 2000+. Highwoods destroyed any uniqueness (other than the architecture which they would have changed if they could) and turned the plaza to an outdoor version of Oak Park. It has an opportunity now to go back to its roots - from what I understand, that is the intention of the new owners and I wish them well in that regard.

Highlander you are right. Nichols shifted the plaza to a high-end shopping area in the late 70s to early 80s and maintained that until Highwoods came. I think the reason why we're seeing a lot of vacant storefronts is that the new management is trying to get the right tenant mix. They are getting a lot of competition from town center plaza/crossing and potentially the 135 corridor so they will need to up their game to stay relevant.

[shinatoo]

Didn't there used to be a Milligram's grocery on the Plaza. West end at Nichols and Jefferson. Seam to recall my grandpa working there.

[earthling]

Yes, there were a couple iterations of a grocery in the spot that became Ingredient, then a tapas place and don't recall what it is now. Is pretty sad that Plaza residents can't get milk within walking distance like a true urban neighborhood should be. Well S Plaza people other side of creek can walk over to Main CVS but there needs to be something within Plaza - either grocery or pharmacy but both would be best and the Plaza used to have both at once. The Plaza used to be like living in a village, now it's just a mall.

[KCPowercat]

The Oliver is there now.

I agree it was one of the biggest annoyances I had living in West plaza and why I ended up moving downtown.

[OPIchabod]

I think the 47 Madison project will help spur discussion of a grocery/CVS type store in the Plaza area.

Remember, there's still the old Nelle Peters Apartments sitting idle off of Summit. Only thing there is a random sidewalk splitting the lot!

[KCtoBrooklyn]

I think the 47 Madison project will help spur discussion of a grocery/CVS type store in the Plaza area.

Remember, there's still the old Nelle Peters Apartments sitting idle off of Summit. Only thing there is a random sidewalk splitting the lot!

And I had heard that a Cosentinos was part of the potential plan for that site. I haven't heard anything about that in a while, so I don't know if it is still in the works.

[flyingember]

Someone complaining the plaza is a teen clothing center or has bad restaurants or this or that is missing the point that the plaza has always served the culture of the times.

Not really. The plaza spent much of its life as a unique upscale shopping center and a neighborhood shopping center for a very wealthy part of KC. It had a bit of an elitist flair that largely avoided both the type of shops and clientele of suburban style malls that were dominating from 1965 to 2000+. Highwoods destroyed any uniqueness (other than the architecture which they would have changed if they could) and turned the plaza to an outdoor version of Oak Park. It has an opportunity now to go back to its roots - from what I understand, that is the intention of the new owners and I wish them well in that regard.

Highlander you are right. Nichols shifted the plaza to a high-end shopping area in the late 70s to early 80s and maintained that until Highwoods came. I think the reason why we're seeing a lot of vacant storefronts is that the new management is trying to get the right tenant mix. They are getting a lot of competition from town center plaza/crossing and potentially the 135 corridor so they will need to up their game to stay relevant.

In the 1970s the core of JoCo didn't go much past 95th St,
The same type of shopping center can't survive on the plaza. There's too many options between the high end shopper and the plaza today.

You also have to look at the age of the shoppers nearby. Someone who was 30 in 1980 is 65 today and retired.

Then compare retail trends. Obviously there's less need to go to a store to shop and the younger shopper is more likely to shop online and want a cafe near their home than to drive to a restaurant and to shop. So it's going to need to change to drive foot traffic

[LCDSI]

Not really. The plaza spent much of its life as a unique upscale shopping center and a neighborhood shopping center for a very wealthy part of KC. It had a bit of an elitist flair that largely avoided both the type of shops and clientele of suburban style malls that were dominating from 1965 to 2000+. Highwoods destroyed any uniqueness (other than the architecture which they would have changed if they could) and turned the plaza to an outdoor version of Oak Park. It has an opportunity now to go back to its roots - from what I understand, that is the intention of the new owners and I wish them well in that regard.

Highlander you are right. Nichols shifted the plaza to a high-end shopping area in the late 70s to early 80s and maintained that until Highwoods came. I think the reason why we're seeing a lot of vacant storefronts is that the new management is trying to get the right tenant mix. They are getting a lot of competition from town center plaza/crossing and potentially the 135 corridor so they will need to up their game to stay relevant.

In the 1970s the core of JoCo didn't go much past 95th St,
The same type of shopping center can't survive on the plaza. There's too many options between the high end shopper and the plaza today.

You also have to look at the age of the shoppers nearby. Someone who was 30 in 1980 is 65 today and retired.

Then compare retail trends. Obviously there's less need to go to a store to shop and the younger shopper is more likely to shop online and want a cafe near their home than to drive to a restaurant and to shop. So it's going to need to change to drive foot traffic

That may be the case but there is also the argument to create the plaza into a regional luxury hub that draws from a wider radius. Twenty+ years ago Taubman did this with Cherry Creek mall in Denver. They set out to make it into a luxury center and it is still thriving today. A majority of the higher end luxury stores that have not come to Kansas City rely on in store experiences. The likelihood of an affluent client shopping online for a bespoke product is fairly slim.

In regards to demographics, the Kansas City market will skew older. If these luxury shops were to come they would rely on a slightly older audience of successful small business owners, lawyers, doctors, etc. who wouldn't mind the retail presence. Even if it was an affluent young professional like those in silicon valley or wall street they still visit these high end stores in person.

[KCLofts]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but I heard that Rye will take over the M&S Grill spot.

[mgsports]

Good to know.

[bobbyhawks]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but I heard that Rye will take over the M&S Grill spot.

Great to hear! I've still never been to the original since every time I consider driving all the way out there (let's be honest, I never consider driving out there), I end up remembering that the Bluestem lounge is close by.

[nomadcowatbk]

http://www.kmbc.com/article/one-of-the- ... se/8671435

[aknowledgeableperson]

Someone complaining the plaza is a teen clothing center or has bad restaurants or this or that is missing the point that the plaza has always served the culture of the times.

Not really. The plaza spent much of its life as a unique upscale shopping center and a neighborhood shopping center for a very wealthy part of KC. It had a bit of an elitist flair that largely avoided both the type of shops and clientele of suburban style malls that were dominating from 1965 to 2000+. Highwoods destroyed any uniqueness (other than the architecture which they would have changed if they could) and turned the plaza to an outdoor version of Oak Park. It has an opportunity now to go back to its roots - from what I understand, that is the intention of the new owners and I wish them well in that regard.

I would tend to disagree that The Plaza spent much of it's life as an upscale shopping center. True, it had it's Jack Henry's, Wolf Brother's, Halls, and such but it also had many places that served the neighborhood. A bowling alley, a five and dime store, Sears and Macy's back then wouldn't be considered high-end, a Wolferman's which was more like a grocery store, an old style movie theater.
In other words, as a commercial district there was a nice mixture of upscale and neighborhood amenities going into the 70's.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Didn't there used to be a Milligram's grocery on the Plaza. West end at Nichols and Jefferson. Seam to recall my grandpa working there.

Milgram's was on the east side at 51st & Main. Wolferman's was on the Plaza.

http://www.kchistory.org/cdm4/item_view ... ISOPTR=235

[earthling]

I think last market was Meiners.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Wolferman's was getting out of the retail grocery store business to concentrate on the bakery items I believe in the early 70's. It is very likely Meiners moved into that spot for some time but I don't think the time spent there was very long.