Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Discuss items in the urban core outside of Downtown as described above. Everything in the core including the east side (18th & Vine area), Plaza, Westport, Brookside, Valentine, Waldo, 39th street, & the entire midtown area.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby brewcrew1000 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:01 pm

Is it outlet pricing?

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby KCPowercat » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:02 pm

Highwoods doesn't own the plaza anymore.

Nike was always going to be yawn

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby flyingember » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:20 am

KCPowercat wrote:Highwoods doesn't own the plaza anymore.

Nike was always going to be yawn


For reference, the sale was announced in Jan 2016

Here's the current owner
http://www.taubman.com/taubman-properti ... lub-plaza/

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby MidtownCat » Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:51 am

brewcrew1000 wrote:Is it outlet pricing?


No. It's a very strange set up. Limited selection on the soft goods and then the majority of the store are outlet style shoe racks.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby kcjak » Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:58 am

I remember reading in a couple of places that Nike had initially intended for the store to be an outlet, but were told no. Sounds like they did the bare minimum to keep it from being an actual outlet.

The day they start letting in outlets - even the likes ofBanana Republic, J Crew, Off 5th or Crate and Barrel, I'm giving up.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby MidtownCat » Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:23 pm

kcjak wrote:I remember reading in a couple of places that Nike had initially intended for the store to be an outlet, but were told no. Sounds like they did the bare minimum to keep it from being an actual outlet.

The day they start letting in outlets - even the likes ofBanana Republic, J Crew, Off 5th or Crate and Barrel, I'm giving up.


That's basically what it is. I'm not joking when I say the Nike Outlet at the Legends is a better version than this store. Crazy that it was allowed to go in, but not surprising considering the current trajectory of the Plaza.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby Downtowner » Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:56 am

Back in KC for the weekend and went in Nike Plaza store. No exaggeration above, it's bad. Hardly anything in it except shoes? Can't believe they allow their brand to look this bad.

I wish the city would take a bigger partnership role in the Plaza. They should be coming with proposals and shared funding to do the bigger project ideas needed to keep this treasure improving. Closing Nichols for a promenade or a Plaza behind Starbucks/Topsys are great ideas. We drop so much into 18th and vine for naught and nothing to the Plaza. I realize it's privately owned but there should be a public/private partnership to make it even greater. Not much like it anywhere in the US.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby horizons82 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:15 am

MidtownCat wrote:
brewcrew1000 wrote:Is it outlet pricing?


No. It's a very strange set up. Limited selection on the soft goods and then the majority of the store are outlet style shoe racks.


For what it's worth, the shoe style racks are the same ones I've seen at their stores in Brooklyn and Chicago. I think that's just the standard, outlet or high quality.

I completely disagree that it's low quality or some downgrade for the plaza. The exterior is a huge improvement over what Halls had, just look on google streetview. Sure it's in-store stock is smaller than Legends, but I mean it's a smaller space. The kiosks and treadmill, while not something I'll use, are a cool touch. Overall, I think it's a worthwhile addition.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby earthling » Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:43 am

I'll be sending the thread below to new Plaza owners next week, have several contacts to send to. Post your suggestions and vote here if you want significant changes or not, can change vote too...
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=20330

Any lurkers out there who have never signed up to post, here's a place to post your thoughts on future of the Plaza and participate with this experiment for change (or if not supporting change).

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby Highlander » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:17 pm

earthling wrote:I'll be sending the thread below to new Plaza owners next week, have several contacts to send to. Post your suggestions and vote here if you want significant changes or not, can change vote too...
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=20330

Any lurkers out there who have never signed up to post, here's a place to post your thoughts on future of the Plaza and participate with this experiment for change (or if not supporting change).


Here's another vote for creating a pedestrian only mall on Nichols Road. Eliminating auto traffic from Nichols has been a no-brainer for decades - I have to wonder WTF the collective owners of the Plaza have been thinking every time I traverse this street. The only drawback is that it is that restaurants tend to locate on the peripheral streets in the Plaza so there would be only a few opportunities for outside seating on a new pedestrian walkway. But then again, changing Nichols into a pedestrian walkway might actually change how businesses distribute themselves on the Plaza. At the same time, do away with the surface parking between Central and Broadway behind the Classic Cup and make it into a true Plaza for gatherings etc... That might take some work because it would be surrounded by the rear end of the adjacent buildings (and hence not all that aesthetic) but the Plaza could use a true square. After that, I would love to see a higher end component on the plaza than what is there presently but unfortunately such businesses seem to want to be in south Leawood for the time being (I noticed Redford's store - Sundance just went to south Leawood - would have been good for the plaza). Not too fond of a revert back to neighborhood-ish shopping area.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby pash » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:46 pm

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Last edited by pash on Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby flyingember » Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:35 am

I would like to see a road diet where it has wider sidewalks so restaurants can setup outside seating and shops can have sidewalk sales but it's not closed to traffic.

right now it's so wide that a truck can park in the middle and block no one.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby earthling » Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:59 am

Highlander wrote:
earthling wrote:I'll be sending the thread below to new Plaza owners next week, have several contacts to send to. Post your suggestions and vote here if you want significant changes or not, can change vote too...
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=20330

Any lurkers out there who have never signed up to post, here's a place to post your thoughts on future of the Plaza and participate with this experiment for change (or if not supporting change).


Here's another vote for creating a pedestrian only mall on Nichols Road. Eliminating auto traffic from Nichols has been a no-brainer for decades - I have to wonder WTF the collective owners of the Plaza have been thinking every time I traverse this street. The only drawback is that it is that restaurants tend to locate on the peripheral streets in the Plaza so there would be only a few opportunities for outside seating on a new pedestrian walkway. But then again, changing Nichols into a pedestrian walkway might actually change how businesses distribute themselves on the Plaza. At the same time, do away with the surface parking between Central and Broadway behind the Classic Cup and make it into a true Plaza for gatherings etc... That might take some work because it would be surrounded by the rear end of the adjacent buildings (and hence not all that aesthetic) but the Plaza could use a true square. After that, I would love to see a higher end component on the plaza than what is there presently but unfortunately such businesses seem to want to be in south Leawood for the time being (I noticed Redford's store - Sundance just went to south Leawood - would have been good for the plaza). Not too fond of a revert back to neighborhood-ish shopping area.


Might post your thoughts on the other thread. Will be sending to Plaza owners this week.

A well done pedestrian street could really elevate the Plaza as the city becomes more urbanized and caters less towards cars - w/out ripping out buildings as Highwoods tried. And malls have to compete with online, they need to continue to create tasteful experiences, reasons to visit other than just the stores/restaurants. Many would gripe about changing up the buildings but creating a pedestrian street with various designs/functions over the years allows for lots of changing experiences w/out impacting the core Plaza buildings. And it would provide more of a village vibe, which is ultimately what I'm proposing.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby KCPowercat » Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:01 pm

Was Bonobos at 219 Nichols Rd a known new tenant?

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby Highlander » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:23 pm

pash wrote:I'm all for pedestrian streets and whatnot, but what would the point be of shutting down Nichols Road? It's already a quiet, low-traffic street with some of the widest, best appointed sidewalks in the city. Yes, it could easily be done, but what do we really gain by keeping out the few cars that meander through every now and then?

For there to be any real advantage to closing it to car traffic, you'd need to bring in lots of programming to fill the empty space. And if you were to close it permanently, you'd have to turn it into a big linear park or something to make it feel like anything other than an expansive dead zone. But it's barely even a public street, since it runs through a single-owner district, and you can be sure the Plaza's owners are not going to want food trucks or pop-up shops or farmer-marketeers edging in on their turf, at least not if they're not getting a cut of the action.

At the same time I think it'd be hard to justify putting much public money into transforming a street that would effectively benefit a single private land-owner—certainly I would rather make that investment elsewhere—so I think it would be preferable simply to vacate the street to Taubman. And if that's what we're talking about, I have a feeling they'd probably have rather different ideas for how to use the space than most of you seem to be envisioning.

But what exactly do those of you who like the idea envision happening there if the road were closed?


As you say, the potential of a pedestrian street might be somewhat limited by the single private owner but the concept works well all around the world and particularly in Europe and selected North American cities. The current mix of shops is not ideal for realizing potential. A few restaurants and other food places that could extend their seating out onto the expanded walkway would work very well. The bigger problem of having a single owner is that they do not have any vested interest in people lingering - they want people to eat, buy, and leave. I see such malls as centers of activity - buskers, outdoor seating, people watching etc.. I've spent a lot of time in Europe and miss that aspect about the US and particularly the Midwest.

Nichols may not be the ideal place for a pedestrian street but where else in KC would you have one? Nowhere in downtown and the Crossroads have the adequate density (expect maybe 13th in the P&L district). Nonetheless, I still think a pedestrianized Nichols would be a substantial improvement over what is there now. Not sure how the Plaza owners would run with it but it potential to be one of the better public spaces in the metro.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby pash » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:57 pm

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Last edited by pash on Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby earthling » Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:18 pm

Agree that it should be Taubman investing in pedestrian street not city. And it doesn't have to be all 3 blocks of Nichols, could start with just one block and expand if/when it makes sense. Have been to various pedestrian streets/souks around the world, Nichols in context to rest of Plaza is about as good as it can get. There are so many different ways to do it, as shown in the pics in that thread, which is just a few examples - some are about as wide as Nichols. This would particularly be appealing if the Plaza caters more to residents as well as visitors, such as <gasp> converting some central Plaza buildings' upper floors from office to residential.

And would also like to see pedestrian streets downtown such as 8th and 4th as discussed in other thread. There is no such thing as too many. Geneva has proposed to convert over 200 blocks pedestrian/bike only.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby JLowe2018 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:17 pm

A comment on the Nike store discussion some posts back...

I talked to one of the employees on the opening day who said to me the rollout of the store was terrible. He showed me a pair of what he called "dad mowing the yard shoes" from last year's fashion season being sold for $70. He said you could find those same shoes at the Outlet store in Legends for $20 or $30.

He said they rolled out the store with all of the old, last year outlet stuff at full, brand new, high end retail price.

On a positive note though, he did say Nike's working on a special Kansas City brand/line of clothes to be sold exclusively at the store, however Nike didn't have it ready in time for the store's opening.

So I guess because of the NikeKC brand not being ready in time, they just chose to go ahead and open the store anyway and fill it up with a bunch of old stuff. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby MidtownCat » Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:11 am

JLowe2018 wrote:A comment on the Nike store discussion some posts back...

I talked to one of the employees on the opening day who said to me the rollout of the store was terrible. He showed me a pair of what he called "dad mowing the yard shoes" from last year's fashion season being sold for $70. He said you could find those same shoes at the Outlet store in Legends for $20 or $30.

He said they rolled out the store with all of the old, last year outlet stuff at full, brand new, high end retail price.

On a positive note though, he did say Nike's working on a special Kansas City brand/line of clothes to be sold exclusively at the store, however Nike didn't have it ready in time for the store's opening.

So I guess because of the NikeKC brand not being ready in time, they just chose to go ahead and open the store anyway and fill it up with a bunch of old stuff. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Yeah, it blows. But it's basically just a sad reminder of the watered down version of what the Plaza has become. It is better than a boarded up storefront though - the new bar of success.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby Highlander » Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:51 pm

pash wrote:Y

Which street in KC do I want to see pedestrianized? I've written a number of posts (and started a thread) about turning Fourth Street in the River Market into a pedestrian shopping street. I think that is by far the most realistic place it could happen soon, and one of the best suited for a first effort. (I won't repeat myself at length here: here's my most recent post on the subject, in a thread earthling started about pedestrianizing a stretch of Eighth Street.)

Not that it should be an either-or proposition. I just don't see much about Nichols Road that suggests pedestrianizing it would make it a better street. If you make big investments in turning it into a linear park or something, or fill it with lots of active programming, then sure. But otherwise?


I agree - why make it an either or decision. Do them all - let the plaza do it with private money. European cities have multiple pedestrianized streets. With all the drawbacks you point out regarding Nichols Road, particularly the point about it not being truly public space, there is currently a compelling reason to actually be on that particular street. That's not quite so true for 8th and 4th. While I agree that both 8th and 4th have potential, that's all they have presently, potential. Nichols has the shops in place albeit maybe not the ideal mix for a pedestrian street. 4th has the infrastructure around it but there's nothing presently on the street so anything that will happen there will have to happen well out into the future. 8th is farther along although maybe not as much potential - but for a least a couple of blocks east of Broadway, the street has some activity. Of course, 13th street in the P&L district would be another candidate and I think they do close it down from time to time already.


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