911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

Discuss items in the urban core outside of Downtown as described above. Everything in the core including the east side (18th & Vine area), Northeast, Plaza, Westport, Brookside, Valentine, Waldo, 39th street, & the entire midtown area.
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beautyfromashes
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

Post by beautyfromashes »

I've found that with developments like this the neighborhood associations in midtown are almost always against the projects. It's not so much that they are against the project in it's entirety but that they want to negotiation some concessions that are beneficial to the neighborhood. It's a negotiating tactic. On the other hand, I think developers are not surprised by this and I don't see where immediate, wholehearted support from the neighborhood helps get a project completed. Cautious support is probably justified in these types of situations, especially in Hyde Park where that neighborhood has been saddled with much more than it's share of Section 8, blighted properties, etc. The militancy of the residents has helped to start to turn that area around. You can't really expect them to change their tactics immediately when it has been relatively successful in starting a renewal.
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KCtoBrooklyn
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

Post by KCtoBrooklyn »

chaglang wrote:Oh well. Send the developers over to Center City or Squier Park. We'll work with them.
Actually, there was a representative from Center City at the hearing (I believe the Neighborhood Association Chairman) who spoke out against the development.
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

Post by KCtoBrooklyn »

taxi wrote:This is a common problem and I've seen it many times. I've seen some of my neighbors do the same thing, not realizing that their hopes are unrealistic. It's generally the people that don't understand commercial development... they may have invested in their own homes (or not), but they don't understand nor appreciate the risk that developers take. In today's lending environment, a capable developer wanting to do a project like this is a godsend, especially given the present state of this building.
That was an argument that a couple people made: "I paid market rate for my home, so why can't these apartments be market rate. I didn't get any subsidies"

Well first of all, perhaps you didn't get subsidies for your home, but I sure did. There have been plenty of subsidies available for homeowners: The RAMP program for parts of Hyde Park, (former) first time homebuyer credit, various subsidies for energy efficient purchases/renovations, lead based paint abatement, etc.

Secondly, the economics are completely different for home versus apartment - and your home is not located on Linwood at Harrison.
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

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beautyfromashes wrote:I've found that with developments like this the neighborhood associations in midtown are almost always against the projects. It's not so much that they are against the project in it's entirety but that they want to negotiation some concessions that are beneficial to the neighborhood. It's a negotiating tactic. On the other hand, I think developers are not surprised by this and I don't see where immediate, wholehearted support from the neighborhood helps get a project completed. Cautious support is probably justified in these types of situations, especially in Hyde Park where that neighborhood has been saddled with much more than it's share of Section 8, blighted properties, etc. The militancy of the residents has helped to start to turn that area around. You can't really expect them to change their tactics immediately when it has been relatively successful in starting a renewal.

Beauty, I'm having a hard time swallowing your comments.

Why should a neighborhood expect/or deserve concessions from a development? In this case, one that creates an improvement to the community and decent homes for the older folks in our population.

No doubt there have been attempts to build the wrong thing in this area, over and over again. All the more reason to be informed, aware and supportive when something good becomes a possibility.

These deals are skinny. There isn't some fatcat, Bentley driving, developer here to skin. Typically, these days, this type of project is represents a hard-working group of people that are exercising their skill set to try to apply their knowledge in developing a project that is financially viable and allows them to keep their group employed, fed and able to pay their basic bills.

It's a tough go.

And yes, I expect them to change their tactics, when it is in the best interest of themselves and the community. How the heck can you say that somebody tried to do something bad, so we're not going to let anyone do anything?
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beautyfromashes
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

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^^^^When there have been so many bait and switches, beautiful renderings that get stripped to nothing, word play about wanting to 'be a part of the community', Section 8 overload, costcutting, bulldozing and bandaids the neighborhood has a every right to ask questions and demand to not be taken advantage of. A good developer will understand this and if their intentions are honest, shouldn't have a problem answering questions and selling a good project. If their intentions are disingenuous, then a little grilling and promise demanding will show true colors.
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

Post by chaglang »

KCtoBrooklyn wrote:
chaglang wrote:Oh well. Send the developers over to Center City or Squier Park. We'll work with them.
Actually, there was a representative from Center City at the hearing (I believe the Neighborhood Association Chairman) who spoke out against the development.
Yeah, and I heard there were some SP residents there too.
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

Post by chaglang »

KCtoBrooklyn wrote:That was an argument that a couple people made: "I paid market rate for my home, so why can't these apartments be market rate. I didn't get any subsidies"
Good God. This argument is appalling. There's a reason people get subsidies for housing, and if you don't qualify for them you should count your lucky stars that you aren't poor/elderly/disabled. Be glad you can afford a house in Hyde Park - Central Hyde Park, even - and let that be enough for you.

(And by "you", I didn't mean you, KCtoBrooklyn.)
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

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chaglang wrote:
KCtoBrooklyn wrote:That was an argument that a couple people made: "I paid market rate for my home, so why can't these apartments be market rate. I didn't get any subsidies"
Good God. This argument is appalling. There's a reason people get subsidies for housing, and if you don't qualify for them you should count your lucky stars that you aren't poor/elderly/disabled. Be glad you can afford a house in Hyde Park - Central Hyde Park, even - and let that be enough for you.

(And by "you", I didn't mean you, KCtoBrooklyn.)
I don't think anyone is against subsidies for housing. The only problem I have is if all the subsidies are unloaded in one tiny area and it then depresses the values of market rate homes in the area and stalls redevelopment. Republicans in the suburbs are always complaining about paying more than their fair share of taxes compared to the less fortunate. I think that midtown has more than their fair share of subsidized housing and reap the negative affects of lower income mass congregation.
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

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Well, yeah, but the Republicans in the burbs and the NIMBYs in Brookside don't want these projects near them, either.
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

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exactly, BFA. i don't have anything against subsidized housing in hyde park or any neighborhood, but midtown generally, and hyde park specifically, has been the dumping ground not only for subsidized housing, but all kinds of halfway houses, transitional housing, housing for prostitutes, drug treatment facilities, etc...i saw a map once showing all these facilities and it was very eye-opening. neighbors are tired of having all of this concentrated in the area. within a few blocks of linwood/troost are hundreds of subsidized housing units and probably a dozen or more "social services" type living facilities. so it's understandable that HP and neighboring 'hoods along Troost are fed up with this. the recent ReStart facility at 33rd and Troost is another example. we've asked these people, who invariably live in JoCo, whether they would want these facilities out there, and of course they say no.

also just in the past couple of years, the "veronica's voice" group, which performs very admirable work helping prostitutes with their issues, purchased a mansion at armour and campbell to house prostitutes. the house is directly next door to the bainbridge, and right in the midst of heavy drug and prostitution activity along troost. they outbid a family who wanted to purchase the home to renovate and live in it. naturally, the folks behind VV live in JoCo, and have had several high profile fundraisers at the house, but it's not good for the neighborhood. (indeed, they haven't actually moved any women into it, so it's been vacant since they bought it).

that said, i am not opposed to subsidized senior housing going into 911 Linwood. that is probably the only viable use for that building.
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

Post by heatherkay »

Housing for these populations has to be in the central city as long as the central city is the only area with reliable public transportation.
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

Post by beautyfromashes »

chaglang wrote:Well, yeah, but the Republicans in the burbs and the NIMBYs in Brookside don't want these projects near them, either.
So, why would you expect residents in midtown to want these projects or, at least, not just accept the project with open arms at its first announcement?
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

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chaglang wrote:
KCtoBrooklyn wrote:That was an argument that a couple people made: "I paid market rate for my home, so why can't these apartments be market rate. I didn't get any subsidies"
Good God. This argument is appalling. There's a reason people get subsidies for housing, and if you don't qualify for them you should count your lucky stars that you aren't poor/elderly/disabled. Be glad you can afford a house in Hyde Park - Central Hyde Park, even - and let that be enough for you.
I don't think this argument was to say that subsidies shouldn't exist at all. The point was that if people are willing to pay market rate for homes and the MAC apartments, then market rate should work for this development.

The problem with that thought is that Linwood is a complete disaster area. There have been absolutely no signs of improvement or anyone willing to invest on this street. If anything, it has been getting even worse. It's full of boarded up buildings, check cashing places, and trashy convenience stores. The one nice building use, Paul Mesner Puppets, is working on moving out.

In order for Linwood to be viable for market rate, there needs to be big changes. Removing the current blight at 911 would be a big step in that direction that could make future positive developments much more likely.
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

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chrizow wrote:exactly, BFA. i don't have anything against subsidized housing in hyde park or any neighborhood, but midtown generally, and hyde park specifically, has been the dumping ground not only for subsidized housing, but all kinds of halfway houses, transitional housing, housing for prostitutes, drug treatment facilities, etc...i saw a map once showing all these facilities and it was very eye-opening. neighbors are tired of having all of this concentrated in the area. within a few blocks of linwood/troost are hundreds of subsidized housing units and probably a dozen or more "social services" type living facilities. so it's understandable that HP and neighboring 'hoods along Troost are fed up with this. the recent ReStart facility at 33rd and Troost is another example. we've asked these people, who invariably live in JoCo, whether they would want these facilities out there, and of course they say no.
I undertand this argument and I did oppose the ReStart facility.

However, I think many of the opponents just heard the term "subsidized housing" and instantly equated this project to Section 8 and the other institutional facilities in the area.

This is for senior citizens who make under $25K a year - which I imagine is a pretty sizable portion of the senior population. They still have to able to pay $600 + a month in rent, so I don't think you'd be getting too many schizophrenic/drug addict/crazies.
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

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KCtoBrooklyn wrote:
This is for senior citizens who make under $25K a year - which I imagine is a pretty sizable portion of the senior population. They still have to able to pay $600 + a month in rent, so I don't think you'd be getting too many schizophrenic/drug addict/crazies.
well, like i said above, i dont oppose it if it's senior housing. but nothing i've seen from the MHDC or developer communications says that it has to be senior housing. my impression, though, is that the nearby neighbors oppose it even if it's senior housing, which i dont agree with. we live at the extreme south end of south hyde park, so i don't really have a personal dog in the fight other than on behalf of HP generally.
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

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beautyfromashes wrote:
chaglang wrote:Well, yeah, but the Republicans in the burbs and the NIMBYs in Brookside don't want these projects near them, either.
So, why would you expect residents in midtown to want these projects or, at least, not just accept the project with open arms at its first announcement?
I think we're making the same argument. I'm not surprised that the neighborhoods are wary or hostile. I think they have every right to be, given the development history in midtown since World War 2. But I'm always galled when I hear of people outside midtown complaining about the flow of subsidy money into the core when the projects that money funds are something they don't want anywhere near their homes.
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

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KCtoBrooklyn wrote:I don't think this argument was to say that subsidies shouldn't exist at all. The point was that if people are willing to pay market rate for homes and the MAC apartments, then market rate should work for this development.
Gotcha. I thought it was the "Why should they get a subsidy if I didn't get one"? argument.

Does anyone know what "market rate" is for an apartment on Linwood?
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

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chaglang wrote:
Does anyone know what "market rate" is for an apartment on Linwood?
I'm not sure if there is much market rate on Linwood. The next apartment building over (where the triple homicide occurred) is Section 8. There is a Knaack Properties building a block down, but I couldn't find that one listed on their site. I can't imagine it would be more than what the proposed rents of these units would be.

I think the bigger question is what rate would the developers have to charge to make a profit if they did not get the low income senior housing credits. The answer is way more than anyone in their right mind would want to pay.
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

Post by chrizow »

kind of a unique situation, but a friend of mine was paying about $500 a month for a "loft" apartment in an old storefront on the 3200 block of troost (linwood/troost). there are two storefront lofts, and another larger apartment upstairs. this was probably 2007. also there is a cool apartment above streetfront office space on the 3300 block of troost that rents for about $900.

no idea what an apartment in a large building like 911 Linwood would rent for, though.
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

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chrizow wrote: my impression, though, is that the nearby neighbors oppose it even if it's senior housing, which i dont agree with.
I think I live closer to this building than anyone that was at the hearing. I can see the building from my backyard and some of the windows in my house. It's an eyesore (well, actually I sometimes think it's kinda cool in a very gritty, post-apocalyptic kind of way).

My next door neighbor supports it as well, though I guess we are in the minority. The MHDC rep who was running the hearing said he received something like 38 e-mails opposing and only 1 supporting (which was not me :) )
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